how to move an edge or points of a volume

 From: wimverbe 19 Jul 2012  (1 of 11)
 I try to move one or more edges of a volume, so I select them, pick the move tool, pick a base point, then a target point, but the edges or points don't move. is this not possible then? tnx wim
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 From: Frenchy Pilou (PILOU) 19 Jul 2012  (2 of 11)
 5265.2 In reply to 5265.1 It's not a polygonal modeling tool ;) So you must Separate or Copy Paste your selection for moving something ! Say you want Pull a face of a volume Copy the face and move it Loft the 2 faces Boolean Union Else all generic transformations are yet possible without Separate or Copy : Scale, Rotate PS Only "Primitives" volumes have "Points" and no need to separate or copy! So make "Show points" and you will can move vertices! ;) So for move a segment of a primitive without separate or copy , you must move 2 points! ;) EDITED: 19 Jul 2012 by PILOU
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 From: wimverbe 19 Jul 2012  (3 of 11)
 5265.3 In reply to 5265.2 I still don't quite grasp it. if I generate a cylinder, and highlight one of the circles, I cannot show points or move that circle. if I copy the 2 circles, delete the cylinder, paste the circles back and loft them, then I have full control over the circles and can move them, scale, rotate and move individual points. huh? I wanted to shear a cylinder, but have to go through all these steps to simply move one end a bit, that does not make sense... I know this is not a polygonal modeling tool, but this is just changing one aspect of a parametric volume... I cannot even take one side of a cube and extend it without having to use the scale tool, and that is pretty restricting I find. you say all generic transformations are possible without separate or copy, but not here. or is this still a limitation of the mac version maybe? EDITED: 19 Jul 2012 by WIMVERBE
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 From: Frenchy Pilou (PILOU) 19 Jul 2012  (4 of 11)
 5265.4 In reply to 5265.3 No Mac and PC are stricly the same ;) Yep a primitive cylinder is not a box so no points ;) But with separate you will have points ;) Shear is another thing Just draw a line an trim the cylinder (if shear meaning is "cut" ? ) For the cube "Show Points" and you will can move any segments (2 pts) or vertices (x pts) or face (i you select 4 points) ;) EDITED: 19 Jul 2012 by PILOU
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 From: wimverbe 19 Jul 2012  (5 of 11)
 5265.5 In reply to 5265.4 no, by shear I mean this: but I get it now! separate, show points, select points, move! thanks Pilou! wim Attachments:
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 From: Frenchy Pilou (PILOU) 19 Jul 2012  (6 of 11)
 5265.6 In reply to 5265.5 At the end : Join, or Boolean Union and then you can verify when you click on it , on the Top Up Right Corner Screen that "Solid" is written !
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 From: BurrMan 19 Jul 2012  (7 of 11)
 5265.7 In reply to 5265.5 The other thing to look for in this is MoI's history. MoI has a basic history mechanism that works with it's construction curves. So if you perform a "loft" from 2 curves, you can then turn on the control points for the originating curves, manipulate them qand see the surface update.
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 From: Michael Gibson 19 Jul 2012  (8 of 11)
 5265.8 In reply to 5265.3 Hi wimverbe, > I still don't quite grasp it. if I generate a cylinder, and highlight one of the > circles, I cannot show points or move that circle. You can't turn on control points for edges like you're used to with a polygon modeler - often times edges are what are called "trim curves" and are more like markers on the surface that mark which areas of the surface are active and which parts are holes. When you have an object made up of surfaces that are joined at trim curves like that, you cannot turn on control points for it, because the control points for the actual underlying surfaces are not aligned with one another. See this FAQ entry for a lot more description of this and illustrations to help explain it: http://moi3d.com/faq#Q:_Why_does_show_points_work_for_some_objects_but_not_others.3F > if I copy the 2 circles, delete the cylinder, paste the circles back and loft them, then I have full > control over the circles and can move them, scale, rotate and move individual points. huh? In this case you're using a different mechanism - the circles in this case are now not "edges" belonging to a solid, they are standalone circle curves, and you can always turn on control points for curve objects. And also after you have done the loft in this case you can edit the circles and the loft will update, that's the history function coming into effect there. > I wanted to shear a cylinder, but have to go through all these steps to simply move one > end a bit, that does not make sense... Typically the method you would use in MoI to make a sheared cylinder would be to draw 2 circles that are in the sheared position you want and then use Loft to construct your sheared cylinder directly rather than initially drawing in a regular cylinder and then trying to modify that. With MoI's modeling workflow you typically will put most of your effort into arranging curves how you need them and then generate surfaces from those curves, it's not so much about plopping in a different shaped object initially and then mutating it like it is with polygon modeling. Think of MoI as more like a "drawing and construction" type mechanism. You draw curves and primarily edit those curves, then construct surfaces and solids from those curves and use some additional curves as cutting objects to slice up the solids as well. > I cannot even take one side of a cube and extend it without having to use the scale tool, > and that is pretty restricting I find. Actually you can for the case of a cube - not by editing an edge or face but you can turn on control points for a box object since it has all untrimmed surfaces in it (every face joins another face along a natural underlying surface edge and not at more arbitrary trim curve edges). So for a box turn on control points and select the 4 points on one side of it and then you can move those around. But again, you're here thinking like a polygon modeling workflow again though - instead of starting with a box that is not in the shape you want in MoI you would generally instead draw 2 rectangle curves that have the shape you want and then Loft between those to generate your modified box directly from those rather than trying to start with a different solid shape and then mutate it. - Michael
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 From: Michael Gibson 19 Jul 2012  (9 of 11)
 5265.9 In reply to 5265.5 Hi wimverbe, quote: no, by shear I mean this: but I get it now! separate, show points, select points, move! It is possible to do it that way but it's not the primary way you would normally approach it with MoI - if you wanted a sheared cylinder you would normally draw in 2 circles and place them at those slanted positions and then loft between them so that the first solid that you actually generate is already in the slanted position that you wanted. Just in general the main workflow that MoI is oriented towards is that you put more effort into setting up a system of curves at key profile areas of your shape, then you construct the object from those curves and the generated result is then in the shape you want right from the start. Then you follow the shape generation by using other curves to cut away material, either slicing ends off or cutting holes, and then you can apply fillets to round off sharp edges. But usually most of the shaping should come from curves that you draw, not so much from surface control point modification. If you're focused more primarily on modifying surfaces you're trying to use a polygon modeling workflow with MoI instead of a NURBS modeling workflow, they're really pretty different in how they work. One other general area that people with a polygon modeling background tend to have some trouble with is getting used to using cutting or trimming operations as a primarily way to get things done, especially in cases where it is best to build an initially larger and more simple structured extended shape before then cutting it to form the final edges, rather than trying to model everything directly to the final edges initially. See here for some links to discussions and some tips that may help people who are coming from a polygon modeling background: http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=4865.2 - Michael
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 From: wimverbe 28 Jul 2012  (10 of 11)
 5265.10 In reply to 5265.9 Thanks Michael for this excellent explanation! now I really start getting the hang of MoI! Wim
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 From: beanworks 29 Jul 2012  (11 of 11)
 its interesting to see the transition in thinking from polygons to nurbs. Everyone starting out in polygonal modelers goes through this. I was asking the same questions not so long ago.
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