Suggestion: MOP Booleans  1-20  21-34

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 From:  Bloodlust
8509.1 
Hey,

I was wondering if that would be ever possible in MoI3D:

http://pushingpoints.com/v2/the-pushing-points-mop-booleans-kit-for-modo/

What do you think?

Best,
Chris
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 From:  Michael Gibson
8509.2 In reply to 8509.1 
Hi Chris, well that looks like a very different style than what MoI is currently focused on. It's going to involve many kinds of modes that you turn on or off as you're working without much guidance. That makes it more complex and a higher learning curve, there's just more stuff you need to know about and keep track of while you're working.

MoI is more focused on making stuff primarily generated from 2D curves, that focus is one of the things that keeps it simpler and easy to learn, and also gives a lot of flexibility.

But I think there is some possibility to add some type of "boolean drawing mode" in MoI in the future at some point. The tricky part with that is making it an optional way of working that doesn't interfere much with the existing simpler workflow.

- Michael
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 From:  chippwalters
8509.3 
So, FWIW, this is a not-so-good copy of MasterXeon1001's HardOps toolkit which works in Blender, costs only $15 and is much more powerful. If you're intersted, you could also check out BoxCutter by MasterXeon as well. Good stuff!

Still, it's clear MoI could create a much better product than both if: 1) there was desire; 2) could use a better filleting kernel.

But, as someone who has worked closely with Jerry Perkins (MasterXeon) for the past few weeks, it's also clear to me this set of tools has a specified set of results, which is some sort of ultra-detailed SciFi type of prop. Even so, Jerry can use his tools to help create other models as well. He's helped me find the 'sweet' spot a couple of times.

My 2 cents, while very interesting, I'm not sure this falls directly in MoI's core target market which IMO simply stated is focused on NURBS (solid modeling) for the rest of us.
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 From:  klaudio
8509.4 In reply to 8509.3 
>> chippwalters
Still, it's clear MoI could create a much better product than both if: 1) there was desire; 2) could use a better filleting kernel.



Especially about 2nd point. Weak filleting is one the main, if not eve the main, issue and everyone i know notice almost immediately that it's
just not working as they are used to in, for example, Fusion360
There is a lot of people really interested in Moi3D for concept design and weak filleting is just big drawback for them - slow, very prone to fail calculation, lots
of particular situation where it simply doesn't work and it can't intersect (go over the edges) or self intersect.

Please Michael! Please seriously consider adding Filleting overhaul as one of the top priorities for Moi v4! You don't have to drop everything and just go straight to it
BUT consider it something you would work on throughout beta period. It can be even the very last thing you will work on for v4 but just please add it on the list and as
important feature!

Best!
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 From:  Michael Gibson
8509.5 In reply to 8509.4 
Hi klaudio, unfortunately Filleting is a very complex area to work on, it takes a very long time to make one that's really robust. So it's fairly likely that improvements will come not from working on it myself but from licensing it from some other company. I had previously planned on licensing one for that purpose but it doesn't look like it will be ready for the v4 timeframe unfortunately.

- Michael
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 From:  mkdm
8509.6 In reply to 8509.5 
Hi Michael.

@You : "So it's fairly likely that improvements will come not from working on it myself but from licensing it from some other company."

I agree with you.
Improving Filleting and Shelling (and offsetting) area it's a HUGE, HUGE task that it's almost impossible to be achieved by one person company.
The only feasible thing is to buy a license to integrate some robust and fast kernel developed by some specialized company (KCM or other)

@You : "I had previously planned on licensing one for that purpose but it doesn't look like it will be ready for the v4 timeframe unfortunately."

I think that your main problem now is that it looks like you're a little too late about that.

2016 is over and also 2017 is going by so fast.

I hope I'm wrong with my remarks because Moi 3D deserves to stay at top places of nurbs modelers for artists.

IMHO the main lacks of MOI 3D are :

1) 64 Bit 2) Instancing 3) Grouping 4) robust Filleting and Shelling

If the point 1 it's almost ready I fear that the points 2 3 and 4 aren't.

Michael, I sincerely hope that you will find enough energy, for example with some external help, to add those features as soon as possible.

Moi still has a great advantage over it's main competitors, that is its "STATE OF THE ART" workflow and UI,
but you HAVE TO RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN because the last 3 points I've mentioned earlier are too important to be omitted.

I wish you the best and I stay tuned!

Marco (mkdm)

EDITED: 9 Jul by MKDM

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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
8509.7 
Any idea of size price of a licencing Filteting kernel ? (when it's not "open" source... or free)
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 From:  bemfarmer
8509.8 In reply to 8509.7 
The only prices I could find, from year 2000, had 4 or 5 zeros in them, per year :-)
Web searches are mostly useless for finding these sorts of prices...
- B
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 From:  Michael Gibson
8509.9 In reply to 8509.7 
Hi Pilou, well the prices usually involve a percentage of sales royalty with some minimum dollar amount. The specific numbers vary quite a bit but yes what Brian wrote above is around the minimum.

- Michael
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 From:  mkdm
8509.10 In reply to 8509.9 
Hi Michael.

Maybe you could try some sort of partnership with some company that is specialized in CAD kernel ?

I don't know. I admit my ignorance about this field.

The main point I want to say is that IMHO in 2017 I think it's very difficult to support a big project like Moi when you have to do ALL things on your own.

Especially today where the expectations of the average users of Nurbs CAD are very high.

Many features that were considered optional some years ago, by now are considered mandatory, and developing all that stuff on your own
I suppose it's too much, even for a very talented developer like you :)

What do you think about these thoughts ?

Regards.

- Marco (mkdm)
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 From:  Michael Gibson
8509.11 In reply to 8509.10 
Hi Marco, yes I would like to license another geometry kernel to help with filleting, as I wrote earlier in this thread. There are a lot of issues around that though, one big one is how picky the other kernel is in accepting geometry. Some kernels work best with geometry that was created only entirely inside their own system. But I don't want to replace everything in MoI all at once, I want to be able to translate geometry into the other kernel without it rejecting things like closed surfaces that are more than 0.01 degrees off of being smooth, do some operations on it, and then translate it back again.

There is no way to know if a particular kernel will be a good fit for these particular requirements without spending quite a bit of time testing and evaluating it and things that involve a lot of time and work are difficult to schedule. I was planning on undertaking this for v4 but the kernel that I want to try next is unfortunately not ready to go yet so it's not likely to happen for v4.

- Michael
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 From:  mkdm
8509.12 In reply to 8509.11 
Thanks Michael for clarification.

@You : "There is no way to know if a particular kernel will be a good fit for these particular requirements without spending quite a bit of time testing and evaluating it and things that involve a lot of time and work are difficult to schedule. I was planning on undertaking this for v4 but the kernel that I want to try next is unfortunately not ready to go yet so it's not likely to happen for v4."

I understand your point of view and I'm not in a position to talk about these technical stuff, because as I wrote some times ago, this is not my developing field :)

And I can imagine that many other things come into play when talking about "if or not" look for an external partnership.

It's up to you.

I just only wanted to say that IMHO it could be better also for you and for the whole Moi project, to not continue to work all alone
on this project.

I think that this strategy could bring you much more benefits in the near future rather than continue to develop all the things on your own.

But, this is only a very personal thought and I'm confident that you will find a good way both for you and for Moi project.

Regards.

- Marco (mkdm)
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 From:  klaudio
8509.13 In reply to 8509.12 
I was also looking a bit what Spaceclaim can do since lately i have seen few more people were mentioning it and using it.
Some really crazy ability which completely blurs the lines between cad and poly modeling since there is just so many
controls in Spaceclaim which alows you direct transformations of selections as poly modeling but with all the benefits of CAD modeling.

To go back to the topic (Fillet improvements) > you can just check this from Spaceclam and see how that fillet can not only go over the edge but over the
entire hole! > https://youtu.be/95vOhN2dTp0?t=1m9s

If you have time, please to check the entire video, so many things i guess Moi3D will never get or maybe somewhere in distant future.


Which kernel are they using to be able to do such things?
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 From:  mkdm
8509.14 In reply to 8509.13 
Hi klaudio.

Well...I think that the only real problem here is that a single standard single license (not educational) of Spaceclaim costs about 15 times more than Moi.

I think that we don't need to say anything more :)

Bye.

Marco (mkdm)
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 From:  mkdm
8509.15 
...Just a final thought about missing features in Moi.

Well, until Moi will be provided with a new cad kernel, I think that one good solution can be :
1) install a free version of Fusion360
2) export to it any model that Moi can't fillet or shell or offset
3) bring it back to Moi.

I don't see any other way by now.

Bye.

Marco (mkdm)

EDITED: 10 Jul by MKDM

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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
8509.16 In reply to 8509.15 
Seems remember that you can also use a free Space Claim Light : DesignSpark for filleting complex object! ;)

http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=6186.1
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 From:  mkdm
8509.17 In reply to 8509.16 
Pilou, believe me.

I played with DesignSpark for a couple of months and I can say that it's smoke and mirrors :)

It's simply miles and miles from Spaceclaim.

Two very different products.

- Marco (mkdm)
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 From:  mkdm
8509.18 
p.s. I think that by now, talking about free software to be coupled to Moi, nothing can beat Fusion360.

Still a young product but it's growing fast.

- Marco (mkdm)
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
8509.19 In reply to 8509.17 
<< It's simply miles and miles from Spaceclaim.
Sure but sufficient for repare Moi's complex fillets :)

Fusion 360 is always in Updating (monthly) so each time 20 minutes or more for the new version up to date! :)
(in any way a very good product very versatile)
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 From:  Michael Gibson
8509.20 In reply to 8509.13 
Hi klaudio,

> Which kernel are they using to be able to do such things?

They're using the ACIS kernel. If Spaceclaim does what you need, you should get it, you can use MoI in combination with Spaceclaim quite well. I think it supports copy and paste between MoI using the Rhino clipboard format although I'm not sure if that's still active in the current version.

- Michael
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