MoI v4 beta?
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 From:  Ced (FRACTIONALIST)
7568.17 
Well, I purchased it - I couldn't resist the B&W interface - and then I remade the ICONS and I really enjoy being able to customize the interface in Moi.CSS lots. Still - what I am interested in is PARAMETRICS & ORGANIC design - you know, symmetry - golden ratio - fibonacci - chaos theory designing - being able to use sunflower seed heads - double matrix, as well as TERRAZZO layouts - patterns. I've tried a few programs like Armadillo ArrayPlus & Parametric plugins - however, for me, they're not that intuitive, at least not as much as Moi3d. I find Moi3d commands much more sensible when it comes to aligning, arrays and pattern making. If I had my druthers it would be steering Moi3d empowering it more towards where t-Splines left off. Now that t-Splines has quit Rhino, I have no use for Rhino anymore, because I can't think how to do the organic shapes without t-Splines in Rhino (5). So now I'm pinning my hopes on Moi3d - perhaps Moi3d will compensate for the loss of t-Splines (to some extent) as it evolves, and add more PARAMETRIC tools - which - in my opinion - would make it a god-send. Cheers! I think this is the best software I've seen in 10 years~! Here are some ICONS, attached, plus the Moi.css file in TXT format - and a screenShot of my favorite GUI:

The Moi3D txt file (Moi.css in text format which I've customized) didn't upload - doesn't open - so I've pasted it below:

html, body {
color:#dddddd;
width:100%;
height:100%;
margin:0;
-webkit-box-sizing:border-box;
}

img {
-webkit-user-drag:none;
vertical-align:bottom;
}

.CommandBarBody, .SidePaneBody {
background-color:#535353;
}

.MenuBody {
background-color:#666666;
flyoutBorderImage:url(FlyoutBorder.png);
}

.MenuBodyDark {
background-color:#666666;
flyoutBorderImage:url(FlyoutBorder2.png);
}

.DialogBody {
padding:5px 10px;
background-color:#535353;
}

.OptionsBody {
background-color:#535353;
}

.ViewControlsBody {
background-color:#666666;
opacity:64;
}

/*** Command buttons ***/

moi\:CommandButton, moi\:CommandMenuButton, moi\:CommandSplitButton {
display:inline-block;
text-align:center;
border:0px solid transparent;
border-radius:4px;
padding:1px 0.1em 2px 0.1em;
font-size:75%;
white-space:nowrap;
}

moi\:CommandButton > img, moi\:CommandMenuButton > img, moi\:CommandSplitButton > img {
width:3.25em;
height:3.25em;
}

moi\:CommandMenuButton {
border-radius:0 0 4px 4px;
}

moi\:CommandButton:hover, moi\:CommandSplitButton:hover {
border-color:#999EA1;
background:#C0C0C0;
}

moi\:CommandButton:active, moi\:CommandSplitButton:active, moi\:CommandButton.active, moi\:CommandSplitButton.active {
border-color:#999EA1;
background:#686868;
}

moi\:CommandMenuButton:hover {
border-color:rgb(153,158,161);
background:rgb(255,255,255);
}

.CommandSetContainer {
border:0px solid #282828;
background-color:#303030;
border-radius:5px;

width:100%;
height:5px;
-webkit-box-sizing:border-box;
text-align:left;
padding:0.25em;
}

.CommandSetBody {
background-color:transparent;
text-align:left;
}

moi\:CommandButton.CommandSetOpen {
background:#303030;
border:0px solid #282828;
border-top-color:#303030;
border-radius:0 0 5px 5px;
position:relative;
top:-2px;
z-index:1;
}

body.CommandSetBody moi\:CommandButton {
vertical-align:top;
}

/*******/

moi\:WindowControlButton {
display:inline-block;
vertical-align:top;
}

moi\:WindowControlButton span {
display:inline-block;
vertical-align:bottom;
padding:0.05em;
}

moi\:WindowControlButton img {
width:1.85em;
height:1.85em;
border:1px solid transparent;
border-radius:6px;
}

moi\:WindowControlButton:hover img {
border-color:rgb(160,160,160);
background:rgb(188,188,188);
}

moi\:WindowControlButton:active img {
background:rgb(165,165,165);
}

/* The one with class="CloseWindow" gets a red colored background */
moi\:WindowControlButton#CloseWindow:hover img {
background-color:#808080;
}

moi\:WindowControlButton#CloseWindow:active img {
background-color:rgb(235,9,9);
}

moi\:WindowControlButton:focus {
outline:dotted 1px;
}

/*******/

moi\:FlyoutHeader {
display:-webkit-box;
-webkit-box-align:center;
}

moi\:SmallCloseWindowButton {
display:inline-block;
vertical-align:top;
border:1px solid transparent;
border-radius:5px;
margin:0.1em;
}

moi\:SmallCloseWindowButton > img {
width:1.5em;
height:1.5em;
}

moi\:SmallCloseWindowButton:hover {
background-color:rgb(250,96,96);
border-color:rgb(124,124,124);
}

moi\:SmallCloseWindowButton:active {
background-color:rgb(235,9,9);
}

moi\:SmallCloseWindowButton:focus {
outline:dotted 1px;
}

/*******/

moi\:MenuItem {
display:block;
padding:0.15em 0.6em 0.15em 0.05em;
white-space:nowrap;
border:1px solid transparent;
text-overflow:ellipsis;
}

moi\:MenuItem > img {
width:0.95em;
height:0.95em;
vertical-align:baseline;
padding-right:0.1em;
visibility:hidden;
}

/* When the menu item has class="checked", show the check img */
moi\:MenuItem.checked > img {
visibility:inherit;
}

moi\:MenuItem:hover {
border-color:#666666;
border-radius:4px;
background:#414141;
}

moi\:MenuItem:active {
background:rgb(149,211,255);
}

moi\:MenuItem:disabled {
color:gray;
}


moi\:MenuSeparator {
display:block;
height:1px;
overflow:hidden;
background-color:gray;
margin:2px 0;
}

/*******/

moi\:TabContainer {
display:inline-block;
white-space:nowrap;
}

moi\:TabButton {
display:inline-block;
padding:0.3em 0.5em 0.35em 0.5em;
white-space:nowrap;
font-size:90%;
text-align:center;
border:1px solid #2C2C2C;
border-left-color:#414141;
border-right-color:#414141;
background:#666666;
}

moi\:TabButton:first-child:not([no_end_styles]) {
border-top-left-radius:5px;
border-bottom-left-radius:5px;
border-left-color:#2C2C2C;
}

moi\:TabButton:last-child:not([no_end_styles]) {
border-top-right-radius:5px;
border-bottom-right-radius:5px;
border-right-color:#2C2C2C;
}

moi\:TabButton:hover {
color:#C0C0C0;
}



moi\:TabButton.active {
background:#414141 !important;
}

/*******/

input, moi\:TextInput, moi\:NumericInput, moi\:DistanceInput, moi\:IntegerInput, moi\:UnsignedIntegerInput,
moi\:PointInput, moi\:CoordinateXYZInput, moi\:CoordinateDistanceInput, moi\:CoordinateAngleInput {
border:1px solid #666666;
padding:1px 1px 1px 0.35em;
color:#000000;
background-color:#808080;

display:inline-block;
-webkit-box-sizing:border-box;
-webkit-user-select:text;
-webkit-user-drag:none;

width:5em;
/*allowdblclick:false;*/
cursor:auto;
}

moi\:IntegerInput, moi\:UnsignedIntegerInput, .unsignedintegerdisplay {
width:3em;
}

moi\:UnitsLabel {
font-size:80%;
padding-left:0.2em;
display:inline;
}

/*******/

moi\:PushButton {
display:inline-block;
text-align:-webkit-center;
padding:0.3em 0.2em;
}

moi\:PushButton > div {
padding:0.35em 0.55em;

border:1px solid #0FFFFFF;
border-radius:4px;

background:#686868;

}

moi\:PushButton:hover > div {
-webkit-box-shadow:inset 0 0 0 2px #FFFFFF;
}

moi\:PushButton:active > div {
background:rgb(205,215,227);
-webkit-box-shadow:inset 0px -1px rgb(255,255,255), inset 2px 2px rgb(180,180,180);
}

moi\:PushButton:focus > div {
outline:dotted 1px;
outline-offset:-5px;
}

moi\:PushButton:disabled > div {
color:#7B1D1F;
border-color:#DE4641;
opacity:0.9;
}


/* use class="SlimBtn" for buttons in a dense grid to reduce padding a bit */

moi\:PushButton.SlimBtn {
display:block;
padding-top:0.15em;
padding-bottom:0.15em;
}

moi\:PushButton.SlimBtn > div {
padding-top:0.2em;
padding-bottom:0.2em;
}

/*******/

moi\:StateButton {
display:inline-block;
padding:0.3em 0.15em;
margin:0.15em;
text-align:-webkit-center;
font-size:90%;

border:1px solid transparent;
border-radius:4px;
}

moi\:StateButton:hover {
border-color:#C0C0C0;
}

moi\:StateButton.on {
border-color:#C0C0C0;
background-color:#808080;
}

moi\:StateButton:hover.on {
background-color:#C0C0C0;
}

moi\:StateButton:focus {
outline:dotted 1px;
outline-offset:-5px;
}

/*******/

moi\:ShowHideStateButton {
display:inline-block;
padding:0.3em;
text-align:-webkit-center;
}

moi\:ShowHideStateButton > div {
padding:0.25em 0.5em;
border:1px solid #2E2E2E;
border-radius:5px;
background:#414141;

}

moi\:ShowHideStateButton:hover {
color:#FFFFFF;
}

moi\:ShowHideStateButton:hover:not(.on) > div {
background:rgb(203,231,241);
}

moi\:ShowHideStateButton.on > div {
background:#414141;
}

/*******/

moi\:ListItem {
display:block;
white-space:nowrap;
word-wrap:break-word;
padding:0.1em 0.25em;
border:1px solid transparent;
border-radius:4px;
noautotoggle:true;
}

moi\:ListItem:hover {
border-color:rgb(153,158,161);
background:-webkit-gradient(linear, left top, left bottom, color-stop(0%, rgb(237, 246, 249)), color-stop(30%, rgb(178, 223, 249)), color-stop(100%, rgb(237, 246, 249)));
}

moi\:ListItem.on {
border-color:rgb(153,158,161);
background:rgb(149,211,255);
}

moi\:ListItem:disabled {
color:#C0C0C0;
}

/*******/

moi\:CheckButton {
display:-webkit-box;
-webkit-box-orient:horizontal;
-webkit-box-align:start;

padding:0.1em 0.2em;
}

moi\:CheckButton .checkbutton_box {
border:0px solid #555555;
border-radius:4px;
background:#737373;
width:1em;
height:1em;
display:inline-block;
vertical-align:text-bottom;
position:relative;
}

moi\:CheckButton .checkbutton_box img {
visibility:hidden;
width:1.15em;
height:1.15em;
position:absolute;
left:0.05em;
bottom:0.2em;
}

/* When the button has class="on", show the check img */
moi\:CheckButton.on .checkbutton_box img {
visibility:inherit;
}

moi\:CheckButton:hover {
color:#FFFFFF;
}

moi\:CheckButton:hover .checkbutton_box {
background:#C0C0C0;
}

moi\:CheckButton:focus .checkbutton_content {
outline:dotted 1px;
outline-offset:1px;
}

/*******/

moi\:LabelButton {
display:inline-block;
}

moi\:LabelButton:hover, .label_button:hover {
background-color:#BBBBBB;
}

moi\:LabelButton:active, .label_button:active {
background-color:#999999;
}

/*******/

moi\:Spacer {
display:inline-block;
width:0.5em;
}

moi\:SmallSpacer {
display:inline-block;
width:0.2em;
}

moi\:SmallBr {
display:block;
height:0.25em;
}

/*******/

hbox, flex_hbox, .hbox {
display:-webkit-box;
-webkit-box-orient:horizontal;
-webkit-box-align:stretch;
}

vbox, flex_vbox, .vbox {
display:-webkit-box;
-webkit-box-orient:vertical;
-webkit-box-align:stretch;
}

flex_hbox, flex_vbox, flex, .flex {
-webkit-box-flex:1;
}

flex, .flex {
display:block;
}

vcenter {
height:100%;
display:-webkit-inline-box;
-webkit-box-orient:horizontal;
-webkit-box-align:center;
}

/*******/

.dialogokcancelbtn {
min-width:6em;
font-size:120%;
}

moi\:DialogOKCancel, moi\:DialogClose, moi\:DialogOK, moi\:DialogCancel {
display:block;
text-align:right;
white-space:nowrap;
}

moi\:LogoDialog {
display:block;
}

moi\:LogoDialogOKCancel {
display:block;
}

/*******/

moi\:Text {
display:inline;
}

moi\:Title {
display:none;
}

/*******/

/*
::-webkit-scrollbar {
width: 18pt;
height: 18pt;
}
*/

/*******/

moi\:Select, select {
-webkit-appearance:none;
-webkit-box-sizing:border-box;
-webkit-box-align:center;

white-space:pre;
background-color:#2F2F2F;

margin:0;
display:inline-block;

border:1px solid #686868;
border-radius:2px;

font-size:90%;
}

moi\:Select:focus, select:focus {
outline: dotted 1px;
outline-offset:-2px;
}

.select_text {
-webkit-box-flex:1;
padding:0 0.4em;
display:block;
}

.select_button {
-webkit-box-sizing:border-box;
width:1.35em;
line-height:1.65em;
display:block;
text-align:center;
border-left:1px solid #7F9DB9;

background:#FFFFFF;
}

.select_button_hover {
-webkit-box-shadow:inset 0 0 0 2px #FBCA6A;
}

.select_button_active {
background:#CDD7E3;
-webkit-box-shadow:inset 0px -1px rgb(255,255,255), inset 2px 2px rgb(180,180,180);
}

.select_button_img {
width:0.75em;
height:0.75em;
display:inline;
}

.select_listitem_highlight {
color:#FFFFFF;
background-color:#4972CD;
}

/*******/

moi\:Binder {
display:none;
…[Message Truncated]

View full message.

EDITED: 26 Dec 2016 by FRACTIONALIST

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 From:  Michael Gibson
7568.18 In reply to 7568.17 
Hi Ced, thanks very much for your purchase! For one type of parametric functionality check out "Project Elephant" from Max Smirnov for a node editor you can set up in MoI: http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=8197.1

Max has also done a sub-d smoothing command for MoI as well: http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=6674.203

Thanks, - Michael
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 From:  chippwalters
7568.19 In reply to 7568.11 
Ced,

One thing I find working with MoI, is that it's extremely well thought out. This makes for a workflow which has no superior for me in the 3D modeling world. I prefer Michaels business model where he's not upgrading every year-- adding superfluous features which end up cluttering an interface and redefining the customer (as in EXISTING ONLY). At some point THAT approach ends up with a Rube Goldberg concoction of features and functionality no one on the planet can fully understand or use (see iTunes for instance!).

The other thing it took time for me to understand is Michael is a craftsman who is not focused on creating a large company or a large product with a large following which competes with the likes of Rhino, Solidworks, Onshape, Autocad, Pro-E, Alias, Modo, etc.. His pricing is low and affordable, and he knows a lot of his users actually use his product with those others. I suspect he enjoys a lifestyle company which he owns and controls, where he gets to interact directly with his customers, and takes time to finely hone his product, just as a craftsman likes to do.

Oh, and thanks for the icon work. Enjoy MoI3D!
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 From:  Michael Gibson
7568.20 In reply to 7568.19 
Hi Chipp, yes you've definitely got it figured out!

One thing that's really problematic about the "must pile on features for this release" type approach is that the existing user base just has no idea how bad things have gotten, they have a high tolerance for the clutter because they're like the frog who is getting boiled very slowly and doesn't notice it. They've built up a tolerance for the problems because they've been along for the ride for quite a while and are able to tune out added things that they don't care about just as long as the stuff that they have been using for the past 15 years still operates the same. But at that point if someone new comes along they get walloped by the full accumulation all in one single dose and it's a very different experience.

Another thing that happens quite easily is that if many people are working on a product it's very natural for each person to want to "make their mark on it" in some visible way because that's just naturally how it seems like they're contributing and doing a good job. It's a lot easier to keep this kind of accumulation in control when there's only one person working on it. There's a lot less meetings and arguments too... ;)

This type of thing just happens so automatically that I really try to keep actively on guard against it. But also just having one person working on it helps keep it in check a lot with a forced rate limiter.

- Michael
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 From:  Ced (FRACTIONALIST)
7568.21 
Mostly I miss the arguments...
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 From:  Metin Seven (METINSEVEN)
7568.22 
Well said, Chip and Michael. MoI's power lies in an elegant, lightweight UI on top of powerful CAD functions, while carefully avoiding the path to bloatware.

— Metin

———————

metinseven.com — 3D (print) models • animation • characters • icons • illustration • infographics • visualization

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 From:  Rich (-RB-)
7568.23 
And just having picked up a Surface - the minimal approach is AMAZING in terms of workflow using a touch interface...Hopefully the 'touch' orientated UI design is continued to be used as a means to stop the bloat!

- Rich
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 From:  routb3d
7568.24 
I'm excited to get my hands on V4 beta.

I was able to harass Michael into giving me multitouch Navigation in V3. Years later, Moi still has the best multitouch nav I have seen.

I'm hoping to see Moi start moving toward VR and AR in V4. I have been harassing Michael about this for a few years now, but now VR hardware is finally ready, complete with HD HMD and fully tracked hand controllers . I have been modeling with Oculus Medium on my HTC Vive for the past few weeks since it's release. I can clearly see that Modeling in VR is a complete game changer. We are 3D creatures WORKING in a 3D simulated environment for the first time.

Prediction: Once AR becomes main stream, between 2017 and 2020, it's going to be game over for 3D programs that are still stuck in a 2D window.

I would love to see Moi cross the chasm and become the preferred NURBS modeler in the new era.

Thanks for Moi Michael! :)
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 From:  Michael Gibson
7568.25 In reply to 7568.24 
Hi Isaiah,

re:
> I'm hoping to see Moi start moving toward VR and AR in V4.

Unfortunately I don't expect for this to be in the cards in the foreseeable future. Doing VR and AR would require a major redesign of many of the fundamental areas of MoI for basic stuff like UI and workflow. It would be more like starting from scratch and not like a port. Meanwhile there is still a lot more I want to add to the desktop version of MoI. I just don't have enough time available to do a major new experimental project while also working on making the current version more mature as well.

- Michael
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 From:  PaQ
7568.26 In reply to 7568.24 
// Prediction: Once AR becomes main stream, between 2017 and 2020, it's going to be game over for 3D programs that are still stuck in a 2D window.

Sounds like an apocalyptic prediction, or a good black mirror episode :O)
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 From:  mkdm
7568.27 
Hi Michael!

I don't remember if you've already answered some times ago to this question.

In this case I apologize.

But...did you finally decide which new base CAD kernel you will use for the next versions of Moi ?
If yes, this new kernel will be used starting from V4 beta ?

Thanks.

Ciao !

- Marco (mkdm)
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 From:  Michael Gibson
7568.28 In reply to 7568.27 
Hi Marco,

> But...did you finally decide which new base CAD kernel you will
> use for the next versions of Moi ?

Nothing final yet.


> If yes, this new kernel will be used starting from V4 beta ?

No, not from the first beta since it's already taking me so long to get it ready. But hopefully I'll be experimenting with that area sometime early in the beta release process.

- Michael
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 From:  mkdm
7568.29 In reply to 7568.28 
Hi Michael,

and thanks a lot for the clarification.

I hope it will be the KCM kernel from Kubotek :)

Best,

- Marco (mkdm)
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 From:  Ken (OKURO)
7568.30 In reply to 7568.29 
KCM kernel seems to be no longer supported / developed ?

http://kubotek3d.com/News-Events/Company-Update.aspx

regards
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 From:  mkdm
7568.31 In reply to 7568.30 
Hi Ken,

As far as I know it should be still in active developing, in another form.

http://www.kcm3d.com/

http://kubotek3d.com/Products/KeyCreator-Direct-CAD.aspx

- Marco (mkdm)
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
7568.32 
<< Copyright (C) 2004-2015 Kubotek USA, Inc.

;)
---
Pilou
Is beautiful that please without concept!
My Gallery
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 From:  Marc (TELLIER)
7568.33 
Any news for the fan club?
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 From:  Michael Gibson
7568.34 In reply to 7568.33 
Hi Marc, sorry just more of the same - getting close... I should be able to knock another thing off the list tonight and it's getting really short.

- Michael
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Message 7568.35 deleted 10 Mar 2017 by FRACTIONALIST

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 From:  Michael Gibson
7568.36 In reply to 7568.35 
Hi Ced,

> Is there a way you can design v4 one of perhaps 2 different ways? E.g. Have a customized
> INSTALL option where you could pick and choose what installs over the current v3 installation,
> or have an ADD-ON zip that would install a selection of options = such as 'lighting - objects
> - icons - interface skins - points - etc?

It would take a lot of time and effort for me to do that, so unfortunately the answer is no that will not happen for v4.

In the future I do want to do some work in this area though to make it easier to do customizations and to make them stored external to MoI like in your user data folder so they can persist between installs but there is a tricky problem around this area which is to merge together changes in the default UI with your own changes in an automated way.

For now when you customize MoI you should keep a record of what you do so you can repeat it with new releases.

If you don't want to do that then either don't customize it or wait until the final v4 release before using v4 so you will only need to do it one time.

When you apply all these customizations like you've been so fond of, you should understand that you are outside of the standard supported target of Moi and you are taking responsibility for doing your own work on it.

- Michael
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