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 From:  GrandeP (INKONTROL)
6196.1 
Hi all,

I'm thinking of buying this software but would like to cover a few things, I'm a complete noob when it comes to NURBS but I've got a few years experience in polygons. The AK3D tutorial of modeling an Audi R8 is tempting however how well would it translate over to MoI? Considering that the tutorial was designed for Rhino, and the other question is is it possible to use Zebra lighting in the program to check the surfaces of said Audi R8?

Thanks :)
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 From:  Michael Gibson
6196.2 In reply to 6196.1 
Hi GrandeP,

> I'm a complete noob when it comes to NURBS but I've got a
> few years experience in polygons.

Check out here for some links to discussions and general tips for people who are coming from a sub-d / poly modeling background:
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=4865.2


> The AK3D tutorial of modeling an Audi R8 is tempting however how
> well would it translate over to MoI?

Well, car modeling is unfortunately a quite advanced type of NURBS modeling, that would be jumping right in to a high difficulty area right off the bat.

I'm not sure how well that particular tutorial translates into MoI, there are some editing tools in Rhino that MoI does not currently have.


> Considering that the tutorial was designed for Rhino, and the other question is is it
> possible to use Zebra lighting in the program to check the surfaces of said Audi R8?

MoI doesn't have a Zebra stripe feature currently. You can usually turn on metallic lighting (under Options > View > Lighting options) which gives a kind of reflective shading which does make it easier to spot creased areas though.

MoI just in general is somewhat more focused on other areas of NURBS modeling than zebra-type smooth flowing surface construction, it's more focused on using 2D curves to build objects, using booleans to slice and cut away different areas. So it may not be a great fit for that type of freeform surface with zebra inspection type of workflow that you seem to be focused on. Just in general that's a much more finicky and advanced area of NURBS modeling.

- Michael
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 From:  mjs (MSHIDELER)
6196.3 In reply to 6196.2 
I actually bought the tutorial (have not completed it yet) and I have found that I have been able to follow the book.

I have bounced back and forth doing it in Rhino and MoI just so i can try to learn get a better feel for both tools.

I have had to play around with a few different methods of laying out sketches and making surfaces but I would say what I did was no more difficult that just trying to build any model on your own and struggling to find the best command to give you the result you want.

Where the book does shine though, and this is key in my opinion, is that by following the book you get to see the thinking that is used behind each sketch and surface and why things are done in a certain order. Doing things in a certain order and laying out sketches correctly from the start - whether this is what type of line or what have you - this is very important and can make problems further into your modeling that you may not be able to easily fix. I think that the book serves as a solid foundation builder for future models that you have to make using the techniques in the book as compared to extrude this, cut there, hole feature there, fillet, everyone now happy. The book is great for learning sweeping, organic and sexy surfaces and how you can make them in any project moving forward.

I would advise the tutorial for anyone that is using a program that is based on splines, lofts, sweeps, patches, etc in order to build models from surfaces. Even if in the areas that there is no MoI command that reads the same as the Rhino commands used in the tutorial you still get to see the who, what, when, where and why of the process. The commands to fill things in is almost a secondary thing as the method, generally speaking, was what I found of MUCH use.

as an FYI and this might impact my thoughts on the book - I come from an AutoCAD 3D background (version 12 to 14) and then SolidWorks from 1998 to 2008 with various other tools mixed in. My stupid brain is wired pretty hard into feature based models and union/subtract type features that were built on sketches so the sketches is very logical to me. It was my intent with the book to try to look at modeling outside of what I already knew and the book really helps. It is also simple enough, as I stated before, that you can really even use it as a guide and still get most, if not all of the car done in MoI even though it is for Rhino. Any place you get stuck there are probably 150 people here that can show you how to complete an area or fix a pucker or defect in any surface that you happen to guess incorrectly on how to make it.

Good luck!

EDITED: 27 Sep 2013 by MSHIDELER

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 From:  GrandeP (INKONTROL)
6196.4 In reply to 6196.3 
So from the discussion so far MoI isn't so great for cars? I've been browsing here and saw that someone a while back managed to model a Fiat 500 and it turned out pretty good. I'm kind of torn between staying with Polygons (which are a pain on a car) or jumping in to NURBS...
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 From:  Michael Gibson
6196.5 In reply to 6196.4 
Hi GrandeP, yeah some people have done cars with MoI, so it is possible.

But just in general it's an advanced area for NURBS modeling and that kind of surfacing is not currently a major focus area for MoI as of yet.

It's hard to say 100% for sure whether it isn't so great for your particular purpose or not, all cars are not the same and it kind of depends somewhat on what particular techniques you will want to be using.

The best way to tell whether MoI will suit your particular purposes or not is to experiment with the trial version and see if it works well for you or not.

- Michael
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 From:  Mauro (M-DYNAMICS)
6196.6 In reply to 6196.4 
Ciao GrandeP:
There are many examples of cars modeled 100% in MO-AI
a Ferrari,a WV Beetle,an old Citroen 2cv,Lamborghini Reventon,few concept-cars following modern lines by Raoul....so:yes we can ! :)
(Michael tends to dissuade users to model cars:he's right,in teory...in this case feel free to forget and go ahead with your idea :) )

This is about first approach:
Nurbs are more intuitive but you have less control on surfaces and details
Sub-D gives you full control on everything but require much more effort to achieve what you want


Modeling techniques:
here in MO-AI you can obtain main shape using Loft for some kind of cars,or using whole toolset mixed together..just depends by details and features
if you want to do a car "panel by panel" you need a software that gives you- 4 sides curvature continuity options-
Rhino and MOI don't have these advanced options so you should use - ALIAS-


As Michael said to you, have a try downloading trial version
play on it...watch your feedbacks...if you feel good in MOI's environment, you can start to do your car :)

EDITED: 28 Sep 2013 by M-DYNAMICS

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 From:  GrandeP (INKONTROL)
6196.7 In reply to 6196.6 
Hi Mauro,

I believe it was yourself who modeled the Fiat 500 that's on VIMEO. I have the trial version and an Audi R8 tutorial for Rhino, some of it doesn't translate well across but hey it's a different kettle of fish.
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 From:  Mauro (M-DYNAMICS)
6196.8 In reply to 6196.7 
here some steps of modeling 500 Abarth:

http://moi3d.com/forum/messages.php?webtag=MOI&msg=5601.1
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 From:  wastzzz
6196.9 In reply to 6196.5 
I suppose it's not easy to implement the continuity for network surfaces, right? Of course, it is an option that would solve a lot of problems given by the limitations of NURBS modeling.



That said, I would pay 3x the price to have an option like that implemented into MoI, which to be honest I prefer a lot.
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 From:  Michael Gibson
6196.10 In reply to 6196.9 
Hi max,

> I suppose it's not easy to implement the continuity for network surfaces, right?

Nope, not especially easy.


> Of course, it is an option that would solve a lot of problems given by the limitations of NURBS modeling.

Not really in particular - even with that kind of continuity it's quite difficult to get good results doing a sort of "patch by patch" type approach. Usually if you're trying to build things by little separate adjacent patch pieces like that it's a signal that you would be better off doing sub-d modeling instead. That's why it hasn't been a particularly high priority for MoI to focus on that area, it's part of an finicky and advanced style of NURBS modeling, fairly different from the booleans and 2D curve drawing areas where NURBS really has its best advantages.

- Michael
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 From:  GrandeP (INKONTROL)
6196.11 
Alright, I've been thinking as I speed along with this Audi S8 I'm modeling in Blender....

How about if I combine the two...? e.g. Model the wheels (which are difficult with polys) and the mechanical stuff with NURBS? Which leaves me to do the body using polygons, do you reckon that would work well? Considering the quality difference between the two methods...
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 From:  Michael Gibson
6196.12 In reply to 6196.11 
Hi GrandeP, yes that kind of combination approach can work well.

There are a lot of people that use MoI in this way, to do organic shapes using sub-d and mechanical shapes that involve booleans in MoI.

- Michael
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 From:  ed (EDDYF)
6196.13 In reply to 6196.12 
Yep - Use the best tool(s) for the job.

I just finished this render. I made the ring in MoI using Flow to wrap recessed engraved design around the ring. Hand was made (not by me) in Hexagon. Rendered in KeyShot.

Click image to enlarge.

Ed
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 From:  Michael Gibson
6196.14 In reply to 6196.13 
Looks great Ed!

- Michael
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 From:  GrandeP (INKONTROL)
6196.15 
Michael, from what I've seen it looks like you build up the basic shape of the wheel and then boolean the crap out of it, is that right? Add fillets, blends etc etc afterwards?
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 From:  Mauro (M-DYNAMICS)
6196.16 In reply to 6196.15 
Yes GrandeP
rims are a good exercise for MOI's newbies
revolve-polar array-booleans-fillet and blend
here a couple of rims just modeled for new car i'm working on,i'll post for Xmas :)

p.s.
if you are a -car classic-lover you'll easily recognize the brand rims belong to ;)

EDITED: 11 Oct 2013 by M-DYNAMICS

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 From:  Michael Gibson
6196.17 In reply to 6196.15 
Hi GrandeP,

> Michael, from what I've seen it looks like you build up the basic shape of the wheel and
> then boolean the crap out of it, is that right? Add fillets, blends etc etc afterwards?

Yup, that's basically it. You can use Revolve to build the base shape.

Check out here for some other techniques using Flow:
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=5470.1

- Michael
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 From:  GrandeP (INKONTROL)
6196.18 
Here is said wheel I'm needing to model. Just out of interest when is MoI version 3 coming out...? :)



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 From:  TpwUK
6196.19 In reply to 6196.18 
Well that's not the best angle on the wheel for modelling purposes. I hope you have more reference pictures to work from otherwise things are gonna get tricky.
As for version 3, that's still in beta, but it's very workable and stable, if you have version 2 then it's available to you now from the http://moi3d.com/download.htm page. There is no date that I am aware of for its release other than when it's ready :)

Martin Spencer-Ford
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 From:  Michael Gibson
6196.20 In reply to 6196.18 
Hi GrandeP,

> Just out of interest when is MoI version 3 coming out...?

Still don't have any specific date, but I'm kind of hoping it will be ready right around the end of the year.

Usually any kind of time frame that I guess at is totally wrong though.

- Michael
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