Ok I will try to make a diagram as soon as i will be sure to understand totally the subject ;)

Hi Pilou, also there is a more extensive and detailed description of how the scene browser works in the help file topic for it here:
http://moi3d.com/2.0/docs/moi_command_reference11.htm#scenebrowser

- Michael

yes thx :)
I am thinking of a comparative diagram Moi / Classical CAD

Hi Pilou its true you need a definition to any object to make a diagram , and all object are related some how
ex: circle is curve ,closed curve, simple or complex color , visible or hiden , locked or unlocked , groop ....

PTC Pro/ENGINEER they do have a mix off 2d layer and 3d modling tree in one.

to my experience the simple one is better and is more flexible and fast.
I don't know what sort off load MOI Browser is taking

Hi lyes, the MoI one is designed to be flexible - the nice thing about it as compared to traditional layers is that you have several different methods that you can use in combination to organize your model, you are not only limited to just layers only.

For example with traditional layers it does not really work to have a method to show all curves in the model because there isn't any way to show an individual object by itself if the object's layer is hidden.

Similarly there isn't an easy way to show just a specific named object with just 1 click because to show an object with a traditional layer system means that the layer that the object is on must be set to be turned on, making any other things also on that layer also be turned on.

MoI's system allows you to do these different kinds of show/hide type tasks that a traditional layer system just does not allow.

Meanwhile if you want to use layers in MoI, the Styles section works very similar to them making a set of categories that controls object colors and also lets you hide and show all the objects belonging to that color slot.

This gains a lot of flexibility with having a single browser UI that allows for these various kinds of operations, like "show all curves", "select all solids", "show the object named Object1", "Lock all objects with Style=Red", ... That's a lot of flexibility and operations combined into one UI.

All the different browser item actions like Select, Hide, Show, Lock, Unlock, Isolate, make isolated selection, work across these different browser sections, so you gain the ability to do all these actions to specific named objects or object types and not only just to a layer.

- Michael

Hi Michael Moi browser is good as is, it is based on virtual grooping mecanisme like layers , and I think simple grooping and ungrooping is good to.

Hi lyes, also another way that MoI's system gives more flexibility is that the Scene Browser works as a complement to simple individual object hiding and showing by the Edit > Hide command, rather than interfering with it.

For example if you want to hide just one particular object that you see in the viewport, in MoI you can do that just by selecting the object and then clicking the Edit > Hide command - the object will be hidden and you don't have to know or care about what layer it was assigned to.

Similarly if you want to show just 1 specific object you can do that by using Ctrl+click on the Hide button which will do a "Show subset" operation. This temporarily displays all the hidden objects and lets you pick some of them, then when you right-click only the ones that you picked will get shown. Again, that works just by picking any object on the screen - you don't have to know specifically which layer the object is on you can just show it when you want.

These are also the kinds of simple operations that MoI's system enables that don't work properly in traditional layers because with traditional layers you can't work on this individual object level whenever you want, you have to show or hide an entire layer which will affect other objects that are also on that layer, instead of affecting just the object you clicked on in the viewport.

Just being able to hide and show whichever object you want without having to worry about layers is one of the big flexibility and also simplicity gains that MoI's system gives in comparison to traditional layers.

- Michael

Hi lyes,

> Hi Michael Moi browser is good as is, it is
> based on virtual grooping mecanisme like
> layers , and I think simple grooping and
> ungrooping is good to.

Yeah so right now the "Styles" section works most similar to layers, since the style assignment controls the color of the object, and also in traditional layers the layer's color controls the color of objects that are assigned to it.

But then in addition to that you can also use the Types section (for things like hide all curves, show all solids, select all points, etc...), or the Objects section (for objects with name labels assigned to them), or also just individual object hiding/showing with the Edit > Hide command.

These mechanisms all work in combination with one another since they all manipulate the same 'hidden' property that is on an object.

The difference with traditional layers is that instead of a 'hidden' property on each object the 'hidden' property instead belongs to the layer and so you can't easily target individual objects or target different kinds of categories like "show all curves" because with traditional layers if you have a layer that has both a curve and a solid on it, you can't show just the curve by itself you have to show the layer and that affects other stuff on the layer as well.

In V3 I also want to add a "group" mechanism which will be similar to object names but allow for child groups within a parent container so you will be able to make hierarchies with it.

- Michael

Michael... I do see the power in the flexability, and I like it... I do recognize that with that flexability, and a "lack of understanding" of a method to deal with it, can create some confusion to someone who is "trying to learn layer/object managment.. """""I click and EVERYTHING is now visible""""""""""""

I think in V3, a video, that demonstrates "A" layer/object managment strategy could go along way... So maybe not trying to "describe the whole concept", but a well thought out strategy and method in a simple workflow, like the "6 legged pod", that would give a "student" a base and method to incorporate into their own workflow....


I know that producing videos is a very time consuming area, and not an initial focus, but the 3 videos you have are invaluable, and can be revisited for finite techniques. And the scene browser is such a "new and powerful" part of MoI, that it may warrant this type of intoduction.....

Just a thought...

All that help to understand difference between Moi / Classical CAD layers !)

Hi Burr, from what you describe, it kind of sounds like you think it is something that you absolutely have to use? But that's not really the case, these organization tools are an optional thing you can use to help you organize more complex projects that have a lot of different objects in them.

If you have a project that does not have a whole lot of stuff in it, you can easily just use the Edit>Hide button to hide and show things and not even use the scene browser at all. One trick that can be helpful with that way is to use Ctrl+click on the Hide button if you only want to show some of the hidden objects instead of showing all hidden objects.


The scene browser stuff is something that you would use if you find yourself having difficulty managing a whole bunch of things.

Is that a problem that you are running into currently? Because if you don't really see any use for these tools or you can't decide on a particular way to organize your model, that may mean that your project is not really at a level of complexity where you really have to worry about that particular stuff.

If you are running into difficulties managing your project, could you describe some of the problems that you are running into? Or maybe you could post an example file that shows some issues you are running into? That could help me suggest an organizational strategy for your purposes.

One of the parts that comes along with MoI's flexibility in this area is that you have some choices for how you want to organize things, there isn't just a single fixed way to do it.

But if you are not having problems managing things, then it pretty much falls under "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" - you don't need to adopt any particular organization strategy at all if you are not running into organization or management problems...

- Michael

Hi Michael... I'm not having any issues with the scene browser... I was just commenting on the multiple posts I see go by regarding the use of the style system.. I note the value of the 3 tutorials you have done that, although very simplistic and generic in nature, cover many aspects of "modeling" in NURBS and MoI, and thought a video that was aimed at Style/object management would be a good target for the new system added to MoI...

It's not something I needed in particualr.

Hi Burr, yeah there are enough little shortcuts and things like that a video would probably be helpful. More videos in general I'm sure would help, I do want to make some more of them in the future.

In the meantime, the help topic for the Scene Browser does actually cover the things mentioned here, including the shortcuts for Ctrl+click on a swatch and right-click in the properties panel:
http://moi3d.com/2.0/docs/moi_command_reference11.htm#scenebrowser

A video that would cover the mechanics of the scene browser would pretty much cover that same information.

- Michael

Hi Burr,

I agree in what your saying but I agree with Michael also, I think the scene browser is so flexible that there is a number of ways that it can be used to organise the scene.

Someone coming from Autocad, Rhino or Sketchup would use it differently to some one coming from say UGS NX, Solidedge or Powershape, so it might be up to us users to post a small video tutorial on the way we use the scene browser, and as I used to say to my Apprentices, you'll get shown how to achieve the same thing five different ways by five different tradesmen, then it's up to you which method feels comfortable to you.

Cheers

Also one thing to keep in mind is that there will likely be a few various changes to the scene browser in v3. There'll be some new stuff like Groups and also probably a selection indicator and the spot where you click to do selections will switch to clicking on that indicator.

- Michael

IMO a very natural way would be to drag the "name-part" of the options area onto the object name it should be assigned to.

Hi,

I'm trying to get the AssignPresetName command to work on a Mac, but am running into a bit of a brick wall. I presume that it's an issue with the filepath, but can't quite work it out - every time I try an alternative, the program hangs. Any ideas?



Alastair

Hi Alastair, this particular script happens to use an additional Windows specific ActiveX control for the part that reads in the text file containing the names. But this can be changed to use a newer built-in-to-moi method for scripts to read text files which is cross platform so that should solve it, I will cook that up for you in just a bit.

- Michael

Hi Alastair, I've attached a version of AssignPresetName here which should now work ok on the Mac, please let me know if it still does not work for you.

- Michael

Works perfectly, thank you. A very useful addition, as it allows me to keep consistent object/class names between different packages, without relying on my cack-handed typing..


Alastair