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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
3137.1 
For a volume like that?


The file linked has some difference at the bottom angle wanted section !
The 2 angles are similar!
You can see follow link some try (one generic method by Michael post 5) ;)
http://moi3d.com/forum/messages.php?webtag=MOI_FRANCAIS&msg=190.1 sorry in French
Not yet satisfaying result

EDITED: 1 Dec 2009 by PILOU

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 From:  Michael Gibson
3137.2 In reply to 3137.1 
Hi Pilou, well remember those steps that I showed you previously about building it by making a sweep for a rounded top shape and then with a fillet to round off the corners? They looked like this:
















You may be able to use the same approach with this shape, but then mirror the piece to make the round continue.

In other words if you want this result:



Maybe try building to the red line here first and then mirror:




You also might look at this previous thread:
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=1002.1

for a different method where the side part is built using a sweep and then a fillet applied to make it fit smoothly. You have a lot of control when building the side parts with a sweep to make the profiles more bulbous like you want there, just adjust the shape of the profile curves to have that kind of a form.

- Michael

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 From:  Michael Gibson
3137.3 In reply to 3137.1 
Hi Pilou, also as far as I can tell you have some conflicting images there.

The image you show does not have that kind of angle in it, here are some closeups of the images:





None of those looks like that kind of angle that you then later mention...

- Michael

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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
3137.4 In reply to 3137.3 
Yes I have written that the linked file curves wanted has not exactly the same form on the image! ;)
For the image shown "straight angle" your method was fine!
But not for the angles wanted ;) (for the moment)

Sorry i don't understand how the mirror can help for the angle wanted?
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 From:  Michael Gibson
3137.5 In reply to 3137.2 
Hi Pilou, so here is an example that has that kind of angle in it:






It follows really the same pattern as what I sent to you in e-mail (as shown in the previous post above), just instead of doing an extrusion for the side piece, I did a sweep instead, to give it that bulbous angle that you wanted now.

You can easily make variations in a pattern by adjusting just one piece like this, for example use a sweep instead of an extrude for one step to customize the shape.

I've attached an example model file RoundedSlab.3dm


This will come together actually very quickly with only a few curves to build it.

I started it by drawing a Rectangle (by center point) in the Top view with the Rounded corners option to make this:



Now switch to the Front view and draw a curve that has the kind of angle that you want in it like this:



These 2 curves are arranged in proportion to one another like so:



Now you pick the small one and run Construct / Sweep to build a the side wall surface like this:



To give it a more rounded overall shape I then drew 2 crossing curves like this:



And then did a Sweep again with one of those as the profile and the other as the rail to give a kind of gently rounded top cap piece:



You can skip this if you want and just use a totally flat cap piece instead, a flat piece can be filled in by just selecting the sweep and doing Construct / Planar to fill in the open planar ends.

But with the custom slightly rounded cap, I then moved it downwards so it intersected the side wall parts like this:



Then I selected both surfaces, and used Edit/Trim and discarded the unwanted parts. Instead of Trim you could also make the sweep part into a solid by using Planar as described above, and then do a boolean with that solid and use the rounded cap as the cutting surface. But when you just have open surfaces and not solids then you use Trim instead of booleans for cutting things.

After trimming the excess pieces off, then use Join to glue them together into one connected piece which results in this:



Then use Fillet to round off the top edge, here I used the G2 blend option in Fillet and adjusted the slider slightly to make it have less bulge:




So notice that one of the key things is that the pieces come together in a sharp corner initially and then I use fillet to produce the final rounding to smooth it all out - that's kind of the key construction technique for stuff like this with regular NURBS tools. It makes it much easier to construct when you do not initially worry about getting perfect smoothness and instead focus on making the overall larger forms correct, and let Filleting add in smoothness at the end to places where the form switches from one kind of overall shape to another.

- Michael

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 From:  Michael Gibson
3137.6 In reply to 3137.4 
Hi Pilou,

> Sorry i don't understand how the mirror can help for the angle wanted?

Well, probably the technique I show above that uses Sweep to build the sides is better anyway. That technique is easily adjustable by just changing the shape of a few of those curves to make the sides more angled, more rounded, less rounded, etc...


But for mirroring it's just that if you have a piece like this that comes to a straight side:



If you mirror it you will then have the overall shape with the angle that you want:




Just boolean or trim away the excess part and that leaves you with this:



- Michael

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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
3137.7 In reply to 3137.6 
hehe thx!
It was the "the excess part" that I missed !
So I will study your detailed example above!

EDITED: 1 Dec 2009 by PILOU

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 From:  Michael Gibson
3137.8 In reply to 3137.7 
Hi Pilou,

> It was the "the excess part" that I missed !

That's one of the strengths of NURBS modeling - anytime that you have the overall shape that you want but it is too large, you are then actually very close to being finished - you just cut the extra part off.

But the other steps I showed above more directly use a drawn curve to control the shape.

Note that just 4 curves are drawn to make that entire model!

You can make many variations by adjusting the shape of those 4 curves, and by adjusting the radius of the fillet that does the final smoothing.

- Michael
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 From:  BurrMan
3137.9 In reply to 3137.8 
If you have any flexability in the corner area, blend can make a nice shape. Just can get it to match the corner radius.


EDITED: 19 Jun 2012 by BURRMAN

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 From:  Michael Gibson
3137.10 In reply to 3137.9 
Hi Burr, yup a blend like that is a good option if you want to have a more semi-organic feeling corner rather than one that follows an exact circular arc profile like the one I posted.

You could do a surface blend like I think you did, or also if you use Edit/Separate on the original rounded rectangle then you could delete the arcs from the corners and put in some curve blends in those spots to make up the sweep rail.

- Michael
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 From:  BurrMan
3137.11 In reply to 3137.10 
I always forget that blend works on CURVES too. This has to sink in!

Thanks.
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 From:  BurrMan
3137.12 In reply to 3137.11 
I also moved those curves that I used to create the surfaces for the surface blend to be more "symmetrical" with the corner and got very close to the actual corner that Pilou presented.

I understand though that I'm changing the geometry, which isnt really answering his question. Just always fooling around.

Burr
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
3137.13 
Another try
Sweep 2 rails (little profil are the same at this lengh) so just one is necessary
Network on the top (add a point at each top curve for keep the same curvature than the original)

EDITED: 2 Dec 2009 by PILOU

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 From:  Buzhug
3137.14 In reply to 3137.13 
Hi everybody, and thanks for your experiments.

Like I said in the french section, I try the demo with a "simple" shape, but not easy in the reality.
I don't understand how to arrive to a smooth shape. I tried different methods, but not great in the render.

I have created a new scene with clean shapes (in the attachments), and a fast test in cinema 4d to see the form which i like to arrive :




Thanks.

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 From:  Michael Gibson
3137.15 In reply to 3137.14 
Hi Buzhug,

> I tried different methods, but not great in the render.

Could you post some of your results so I can see what you have tried and make some suggestions?

Did you see the sequence that I recommend in this post:
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=3137.5

That shows the steps that I would recommend for making this kind of shape, it involves drawing 4 curves, then doing 2 sweeps, some trimming and then a fillet to produce a rounded edge, there are screenshots in that post to help you follow along.

There's also an example model attached there named RoundedSlab.3dm

Do you have problems following those steps or is the final result not suitable for some reason? If you don't like that result can you please let me know what is not good about it and then I can try to explain how to make some adjustments to it.

One of the main things with this kind of a shape is to try and break it down into a couple of more simple broader surfaces and then build those with some more simple curves, then combine the results by filleting. That's instead of trying to build the whole thing all in just one single surfacing operation.

- Michael
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
3137.16 In reply to 3137.15 
The problem is how to "past" at the original curves with the fillet and the "join" of upper surface?

EDITED: 3 Dec 2009 by PILOU

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 From:  Michael Gibson
3137.17 In reply to 3137.16 
Hi Pilou,

> The problem is how to "past" at the original curves with the
> fillet and the "join" of upper surface?

I'm sorry, I don't understand - "past" what?

Did you see the model I posted previously? It has an angle in it like you were asking:



Also note there that the Fillet radius I used was pretty large, so that the fillet went a fair distance down the sides.

So for the fillets in my example model were actually this piece here:



- Michael
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
3137.18 In reply to 3137.17 
<Past = fit, follow
red + blue lines must follow the original curves lines sections

what must be in general the lenght of the "?" (in proportion)
and the angle of the end of red lines ?

Or blue lines must stop must just at the vertical of the internal bottom point? (image 2)



EDITED: 3 Dec 2009 by PILOU


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 From:  Michael Gibson
3137.19 In reply to 3137.18 
Hi Pilou, I'm sorry I'm still not very clear on what you mean.

But you seem to refer to the area where the fillet is going to be placed?

You should not attempt to draw that area directly - instead let the fillet be calculated to fill in that spot so that it can be automatically be created as a smoothly connecting piece.

You can adjust the shaping of the fillet by a couple of things - adjust the radius to be either larger or smaller as desired, and also with the Shape: G2 Blend option in Fillet which then gives you a "Bulge" slider that you can also adjust to tweak the fillet's shaping.

You seem to keep on trying to build a smooth piece without making a fillet, that will be a lot more difficult - the easiest way is to let a fillet be calculated to create a blending area between the 2 surfaces.

If you open up my example model, you will see that there are just 4 curves that define everything, 2 for the top surface and 2 for the side surface.

If you want to adjust the shape of the result, just edit those 4 curves to adjust things as you want.

Maybe if you can explain a bit more about how my example is not right for you it may help me to understand, right now I don't really understand why that does not work for you properly.

- Michael
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 From:  Michael Gibson
3137.20 In reply to 3137.18 
Hi Pilou,

> Or blue lines must stop must just at the vertical of the internal bottom point?

If I understand correctly, you want the blue lines and the red lines to intersect near the midpoint of where the fillet will be going.

You make that portion come to a sharp edge between the 2 surfaces, don't attempt to draw each piece already perfectly round and meeting smoothly in that spot, make it come to a sharp intersection point and then use Fillet to smooth out the sharp edge.

It does not matter exactly how far the 2 pieces overlap past one another, just make them go some small distance past each other so that they fully intersect and can trim each other.

Just look at the previous file I posted for an example...

- Michael
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