Hi Michael!

I've experimented here a little bit but actually it seems to be only relevant to spheres..

Your example imports just fine..

Sorry for exaggeration))

Igor

First I thought that maybe it's outdated SAT file format but rhino showed that even the most ourdated one works good

Here's yet another sample of the same 3dm file - one exported from rhino (looking fine)

another from MoI (looking bad)

But this 3dm exports good SATs only if 3dm was created by rhino (4) if i initially create 3dm im MoI and than open in Rhino and export from there - export doesn't work correctly..

Hi Igor - like Burr I also tried a few different applications with your testObject.sat file and didn't see any problems in ViaCAD, Alibre, or the ACIS part viewer.

So it seems to be something that only Revit is particularly sensitive to.

I don't have Revit over here, so I'll probably need you to run a few tests to try and narrow it down to see what it doesn't like. Is there any kind of settings dialog or options for SAT import into Revit? If so then could you post a screenshot of what it looks like?


What happens if you export just a plain sphere all by itself (not booleaned on to anything else, just draw a single sphere)? Does that work or not?


Also, if you can get 2 SAT files prepared with one file that works and one that doesn't (with the same model in each), could you please post both those files here, plus the .3dm file for it as well? I may be able to examine the SAT files to see what is different between the one that works and the one that doesn't.


Another thing you can try in MoI is to turn on analytic output, which is a setting in the moi.ini file.

To edit the moi.ini file, shut down MoI first (since it write settings to file at shutdown), and then open up moi.ini in a text editor like notepad. If you are on WinXP, the moi.ini file is located here (Vista slightly different):
C:\Documents and Settings\ [your login name] \Application Data\Moi\moi.ini

In it there is a section like this:
[NURBS Export]
WriteAnalyticCurves=n
WriteAnalyticSurfaces=n


Try switching both of those to say =y instead, and save the moi.ini file - now when save the exporter will use "analytic entities" for some kinds of objects like lines, circles, and possibly spheres I think, rather than general NURBS entities. That may have some effect.

- Michael

Hi Michael!

1. Re analytic output: (shown below)
If I change section parameters to y (both or one by one) SAT file is not exported at all
[NURBS Export]
WriteAnalyticCurves=n
WriteAnalyticSurfaces=n
So SAT file can only be exported when both parameters are set to "n"

2. One model for exports from Rhino and Moi to see difference in SAT files:

The Problem comes from MoI 3dm because:
If I create .3dm file in MoI - no matter where I export from to SAT (from Rhino or MoI) - export doesn't work properly.
If I create .3dm file in Rhino - no matter where I export from to SAT - export works just fine

Therefore I cannot give one .3dm model and 2 SAT files exported out of it, instead I have created identical shapes in both Rhino and MoI to be able to generate both bad and good SAT export

pls see attached (also import dialog - but nothing really changes there from import to import)

Sorry for this problem, hopefully you'll be able to fix it

Regards, Igor

Hi Igor - thanks for the examples. I'll see if I can figure anything out.

Also what happens if you do just a plain sphere? I mean no booleans, just draw a Sphere in MoI using Draw solid / Sphere, and then export to SAT - does that fail to import into Revit?

- Michael

btw re interface

I haven't figured it out if I select a shape and see its coordinates and I want to move it by changing them I cannot select x coordinate - all selected at once - and i only need to change x coordinate.. if anyone please explain.. Thanks

And one more thing.. re the same coordinates input field pls see pic attached.
If you zoom out the corrdinates increase substentially and there's not enough space for them (even if you enlarge the UI)

So would be nice if you could look to that as well..

Regrds
Igor

Sorry,

forgot to mention that sphere alone (and along with other objects but not booleaned) imports perfectly

Hi Igor,

> btw re interface
>
> I haven't figured it out if I select a shape and see its
> coordinates and I want to move it by changing them I
> cannot select x coordinate - all selected at once - and
> i only need to change x coordinate.. if anyone please
> explain.. Thanks

Those coordinates are not connected to the selected object, they show what point was under your mouse.

Entering point values when you are not in a point picker does not have any effect.


What is that you want to do? If you want to move an object by a certain amount, select it and use the "Move" command, then you can enter a distance constraint by typing in a number and hitting Enter. Then make sure Straight snap is on and move the mouse in the direction you want to move.


> And one more thing.. re the same coordinates input field pls
> see pic attached.
> If you zoom out the corrdinates increase substentially and there's
> not enough space for them (even if you enlarge the UI)

Yes, but that's fine because you should generally try and avoid constructing objects with large coordinate values in them in a NURBS modeling program.

Many kinds of operations are carried out to a particular accuracy level, for example 0.001 units.

If you have objects that are of a large coordinate size, then 0.001 becomes very very tiny in relation to the object and fitted curves will become excessively dense and slow to calculate because they will be trying to get too high of an accuracy.

So it is generally best to avoid such large coordinate values, try to keep things within 3000 units in size, make sure to choose an appropriate units value. For example do not try to model something in mm that is going to require units of 1000000mm - instead use Meters for such objects.

- Michael

Michael,
Thanks for the explanations! Very useful info!

Just one more wish for MoI
If its possible for Straight Snap Guide to be locked (while shift down - as in Sketchup) cause when there are many other objects around Straight Snap guide often get dismissed by other snaps

Thanks

Hi Igor - if you have a lot of other things in the way, my best recommendation is to hide them so that they don't interfere.

Don't try to struggle so much with a lot of things in the scene - try to clear things away earlier and free things up.

But other than that, a couple of things you can try:

- Disable object snap so that it will not kick in. You can do this either with a click or if you wish to set up a keyboard shortcut, then go to Options / Shortcut keys, and enter in this for the command:
script:moi.drawingAids.objectSnap = !moi.drawingAids.objectSnap;

It is also possible to set up a kind of "enforced" ortho line - to do that, drag out a construction line and hold the mouse down on the little tag that shows up, and pick "Project next point":

Construction lines overview:
http://moi3d.com/1.0/docs/moi_command_reference10.htm#constructionlines

- Michael

Hi Igor - thanks for posting the example SAT files.

I took a look into them, and it appears that MoI's exporter structures the data a little differently than Rhino, but it seems to be a valid way since no other programs have a problem with it.

I have sent a message including those files to the company that makes the SAT export library that I use in MoI.

Maybe he will be familiar with this issue, I'll have to wait and see what he says.

- Michael

Hi Michael!

I have figured it out what exactly makes spheres not importable into revit..
pls see attached file..

As I said earlier .3dm is the cause - may be a tweak for spheres can be done in options on export - to help them be structured like in Rhino or AutoCad

Regards,
Igor


Also there was a bug fixed in Rhino for sat fails (as it happened only recently - just making sure MoI doesn't have it as well..)

What's New, SR4b (27-Aug-2008)
Bug Fixes:
Export SAT: the correct unit system is now saved in SAT files. This makes it possible to read Rhino's SAT files into other applications and have them maintain the correct size.

Hi Igor,

Sorry, I'm not really sure what the difference is - I guess you are showing a screenshot there where they look different in AutoCAD? Unfortunately I can't really debug a screenshot, I need actual model examples that I can examine.


> may be a tweak for spheres can be done in options on export - to
> help them be structured like in Rhino or AutoCad

I need to know exactly what the difference is before I would be able to do that.


> Also there was a bug fixed in Rhino for sat fails (as it happened
> only recently - just making sure MoI doesn't have it as well..)

Have you run into any problem with units with the MoI export? If not then there is no bug there... MoI's code for SAT export is totally different than Rhino's so there isn't too much reason to expect for bug reports in Rhino to be the same in MoI...

- Michael

Hi Igor - in those screen shots you mention things like "This is an imported SAT file..." - it would be a big help if you could include all those related files instead of only a screenshot. Like if you have some example about a particular SAT file, please post the SAT file (and any original .3DM file as well) so I can try to examine the model data.

It is hard for me to tell specific things like details about the surface definition and topology just by looking at a screenshot.

Thanks,
- Michael

Hi Michael!

I have actually collected a few more findings, but will post on them later on - lets wait for the person you send the files I earlier provided for his/her verdict

Regards,
Igor

Hi Igor, I'm going to start a new thread for continuing the Sphere / SAT export issue.

- Michael

EDIT: new thread for this discussion is here:
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=2634.1