hi all,

i'm trying out MoI and would like to know a bit more about editing geometry. i'm more used to polymodelling and moving verts/edges/faces around to get the desired shape.

i like the way MoI builds geometry - its perfect for my way of working and the type of modelling i do. however, i have no idea how to go about editing created geometry.

say i build a cube and boolean 2 holes out of it. once the holes are made, how can i (for example):

1. make the size of the cube bigger - not scale. i want the holes to stay the same size and only the outside of the cube to get bigger
2. move the holes around within the cube
3. move a given side of the cube
4. move any edge/vert of the top of the cube

etc.

sorry if this has been discussed but i had a look through many posts/tutorials but i couldn't find any editing info, only how to build...

Hi shroomer, it is not especially easy to make those kinds of edits, you can't just drag edges around like in a poly modeler. See this FAQ post for some explanation on how the structure of MoI's models is different from a poly model.

Right now MoI is more focused on making it possible to draw what you want in the precise spot you need right from the beginning instead of squishing things around later on.

But in the future I do expect to improve the history function to make it easier to do these kinds of edits.

It is possible though, here is a tutorial that shows how you can detach different surfaces in a model and relocate them to a different area: http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=446.17 - that covers fixing up a boolean that was placed in the wrong spot.

If you have a pretty simple hole, then the easiest way is to erase the hole and then do your edits on the main object, then cut the hole again in your new location. I'll try to post some examples a bit later on today.

There are a couple of other techniques that can work in different situations - sometimes extracting the edge curves (by selecting them, then copy/paste), editing edge curves and rebuilding surfaces is the way to go, other times if things are set up well for it, you can use Edit/Separate to break a solid down into individual surfaces, then turn on control points for the surfaces and manipulate them, then re-join.

If you need to do a lot of these kinds of edits, a "parametric solid modeling" program like SolidWorks or Alibre would probably suit you better than MoI - they are focused a lot on doing these kinds of changes.

- Michael

Michael,

thanks for your honest reply - i thought this would be the case. i do, however, look forward to seeing easier editabilty in future releases of MoI. unfortunately, i don't have the patience or skill to plan my modelling in its entirety, so for me full editing tools are a must.

good luck with your great software!

Michael, just to clarify (confirm) please.
When "joining" curves, that they show as joined is not a true indication that the curves are--actually-- "connected".

> Michael, just to clarify (confirm) please.
> When "joining" curves, that they show as joined is not a true
> indication that the curves are--actually-- "connected".

Hi Brian, curves that are joined together and select as a single piece are definitely connected.

The part that you don't get a true indication of is whether the curve is closed or not. That is - there can be a gap between the very start and very end of the curve, even though each of the segments of the curve is attached to another segment. That's what happened in your other case recently.

Here is a visual explanation:

Below I have a curve made up of 4 segments. When I click on the curve, the whole thing highlights:



This definitely means that those 4 pieces are connected end to end.

Now I have edited the curve to drag that open endpoint pretty close to the start:



Even though it looks like a closed curve at a glance, it is not, there is still a gap there just as in the first image, it is just smaller and harder to notice.

That is the kind of connection (between start and end) that you can't automatically be sure of.

The connection between all the other segments you can be sure of.

- Michael

Thanks Michael.
As with the other thread, which hopefully assistance will be provided for in later updates, I almost have to enlarge to full screen of the offending ends to be able to see the missing connections. (And it's important to very much slow down the workings of the tool movement speeds or one can go "around the bend" mentally in seconds!)

Little red dots show up when ends are close but not joined?

> (And it's important to very much slow down the workings of the tool movement
> speeds or one can go "around the bend" mentally in seconds!)

One thing that can work well for this kind of close zooming is the "Area" tool (in the bottom of the viewport)- snap the center of the area rectangle to the end, and then if you drag a small window it will be focused right on that spot.

Sometimes I use a combination of the area zoom to center the view on one spot, then use the zoom button at the bottom of the viewport to zoom in slowly by moving the mouse only a small distance up.


> Little red dots show up when ends are close but not joined?

Nope, nothing is displayed right now for close but not joined. It would probably be nice to show something, but the tricky thing is to decide what distance should trigger a display like that. If the distance is too loose, then it will look like there are errors on things that are actually fine.

There is a red square outline that is displayed if you have control points turned on and there is more than one point stacked up on the same location, which tends to cause problems.

- Michael

As always Michael, thanks.
Yes I must use that area selection more. Good point.
I can undersatand the "limits" that my red dots idea would produce but, maybe better than nothing?
The red square. Does this show up (have never seen) when ends are only alligned in one direction? ( In any case,is that any different from the red dots principle?)

> maybe better than nothing?

It's hard to say - if it gave a "false positive", like a warning where there was no actual problem, then it could be confusing.

I would definitely like to look into it in the future - but it's one of those things that will need some time and experimentation.

Too many of these things and you can get an information overload without it being obvious what the warning is really trying to convey.


> The red square. Does this show up (have never seen) when ends are only
> alligned in one direction?

Nope, it shows up when you have control points stacked up in the exact same location.

So for example if I start with this curve, with this reference point above it:



If I drag 3 of the curve's control points over to that same location so they are all stacked up on top of each other, you will see the red square show up:



It's good that you don't see it often, because curves that are structured like this with several points stacked up right on top of one another will cause many problems later on.


> ( In any case,is that any different from the red dots principle?)

The big difference is that it is triggered by a more precise condition of points being stacked right on top of each other.

A "show something if they are close together" type method is much less precisely specified, making it more likely to be triggered as a false positive.

- Michael

What a joy to have you, and Andrew of 3D Brush!

If the fixes for Carrara 6 come through what else would I ever need?
(Well, other than P/Shop naturally!)

"unfortunately, i don't have the patience or skill to plan my modelling in its entirety, so for me full editing tools are a must."


I come from Cinema, too. I use to draw my concepts by building up a 3-dimensional spline model and then go on
experimenting with the shapes and proportions of the solid model until achieving the final form.

I am actually trying out if I can do this with MoI. I thing the best (only ?) way to keep the object easily editable is when
working with curves and networks so that you can use the points of the curves to edit the object. So I am experimenting
if I can design my objects mainly with the use of curves + networks as I found out that I loose flexibilty when I apply
boole operations or others.