V4 beta Oct-17-2018 available now - SubD to NURBS conversion
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 From:  BurrMan
9100.156 In reply to 9100.155 
Thanks Michael!
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 From:  bemfarmer
9100.157 In reply to 9100.147 
Some results from saving cubes in MoI as .obj, and applying create subD:

Attached are the solid models 4Box01.3dm and 4Box02.3dm, created in MoI, derived from the Box tool, which appear to be identical, but are not. Saving as .obj files and then using create SubD results in different SubD models. There are at least two additional permutation models, which result in different .obj and subD results. Saving some .3dm and reloading them, then saving to .obj and applying SubD may result in different results than the pre-saved .3dm to .obj save.

Creating 4Box02.3dm:
1. Create a box.
2. Use circular array to create 4 boxes touching by their edges.
3. Change color and Separate the inner 4 faces, leaving the outer 20 faces joined into 4 open cubes.
4. Select the 4 open cubes, excluding selection of the inner 4 faces, and join.
5. Select the 20 face outer joined surface, then select the inner 4 faces one by one. (they can be selected in different orders), and join to form the 24 face solid.
6. Save as .obj.
7. Use create SubD on the .obj file to yield 2 or 3 subD objects.

Creating 4Box01.3dm:
1. Create a box.
2. Use circular array, or copy to create 4 boxes touching by their edges.
3. (May change color of the 4 inner faces.) Select all 4 cubes and Separate.
4. Select the 20 outer faces and join to a joined surface.
5. Select the outer 20 face joined surface, then select each of the 4 inner faces, one by one, and join to one solid. (Note that selecting the 4 inner faces by their color, or by their name, does not give the same result.)
6. Save as .obj.
7. Use create SubD on the .obj file to yield 1 subD object.

Using meshlab, it turns out that the 4Box solids are not manifolds, and that they have different non-manifold edges. The meshlab command:
Filters/ Cleaning&Repairing/ Remove Faces from non manifold edges,
shows the difference between the two .obj solids.

(Three boxes may be arranged around a central triangle with comparable results.)
- Brian
Deleted this old attachment, for space.

EDITED: 17 Jan by BEMFARMER

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 From:  Michael Gibson
9100.158 In reply to 9100.157 
Hi Brian, thanks for testing this. The problem is that in both 4Box01.3dm and 4Box02.3dm the objects are not clean solids because more than 2 surfaces are coincident at these edges:



Having that type of geometry as one single object will cause various kinds of inconsistent behavior not just for .obj conversion but also for various other operations as well.

That should be separated out into 4 separate independent objects instead of being just one single object, that should then give a lot more consistent results.

I can understand that it is objectionable that MoI reports the object type here as "solid" but unfortunately it isn't really feasible for MoI to do an extensive self intersection test as part of the properties panel display. That's because such a test can end up being very time consuming especially on larger models and it would not be very good for everything to pause for say 10 seconds or so with every selection.

- Michael

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 From:  bemfarmer
9100.159 In reply to 9100.158 
Thank you Michael.
I'm going to move on to other projects now :-)
- Brian
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 From:  Dooki (ALANO)
9100.160 In reply to 9100.1 
Hey Michael,
THanks for the update. I'm getting an "Invalid Error" message when I try to download.


-Alan
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 From:  Michael Gibson
9100.161 In reply to 9100.160 
Hi Alan, please e-mail me your license key at moi@moi3d.com so I can try to see what the problem is.

You can also get your license key e-mailed to you from this page here: http://moi3d.com/reinstall.htm .

- Michael
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 From:  Michael Gibson
9100.164 
Hi Vladimir, I've split off your question to its own thread here:
http://moi3d.com/forum/messages.php?webtag=MOI&msg=9154.1

- Michael
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 From:  Unknown user
9100.165 In reply to 9100.164 
Hi Michael.
> What operating system are you running?

Windows 7 64bit.
Vladimir.
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 From:  Michael Gibson
9100.166 In reply to 9100.165 
Hi Vladimir, I will reply in the other thread I split your topic off to, over here:
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=9154.1

- Michael
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 From:  blowlamp
9100.167 
Was playing around with the Boolean Merge tool and may have found a bug whereby one of the newly 'Merged' parts instantly disappears after creation. If not a bug, then why does that particular part go missing?

Here's a very short video I made of what happens.

https://vimeo.com/304006382


Martin.
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 From:  Michael Gibson
9100.168 In reply to 9100.167 
Hi Martin, that's actually how boolean merge is meant to work when open surfaces are involved. When there are open surfaces it will try to extract all closed volumes it can and remove the exterior surfaces, there's another example here: http://moi3d.com/3.0/docs/moi_command_reference7.htm#booleanmerge , see the one labeled "Boolean Merge can also be used to extract a common solid volume from a set of intersecting surfaces:".

> If not a bug, then why does that particular part go missing?

It's because it's an open surface and not a closed volume after everything has been intersected and merged.

- Michael
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 From:  blowlamp
9100.169 In reply to 9100.168 
Thanks for explaining that for me, Michael.

I didn't need that particular bit, but could you tell me if there's a way to retain those parts in case you wanted to use them for something later, please?

Cheers, Martin.
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 From:  Michael Gibson
9100.170 In reply to 9100.169 
Hi Martin, one way to keep it is after you see that it's gone use undo to go back a step so it will reappear then select it and use Cmd+C to copy it to the clipboard, then redo then Cmd+V paste. That's kind of a general purpose way to keep something that was removed by any command.

Or another possibility is to use boolean difference with that surface as the cutting object, there is a "Keep objects" checkbox in the command options that you can use for boolean difference where it won't remove the cutting object.

By the way I still have it on my list to investigate the file dialog thing you wrote about way further up in this thread I just haven't had a chance to do the testing for it quite yet.

- Michael
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 From:  amur (STEFAN)
9100.171 
Hi Michael,

i like to ask if you already found a solution for creases with the subd to NURBS feature,
or is it something you thinking about, once MoI v4 is released?

Best regards
Stefan
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 From:  Michael Gibson
9100.172 In reply to 9100.171 
Hi Stefan, I'm going to be looking into support for creased edges after v4. I want to get things ironed out with regular non-creased stuff first.

- Michael
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 From:  amur (STEFAN)
9100.173 
Hi Michael,

thanks for the information!

Best regards
Stefan
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 From:  Christopher (SCHARDT)
9100.174 In reply to 9100.1 

Thanks so much for creating V4! It works so much better than V3. I create LED displays with 1000s of LEDs, each represented by a tiny solid. I used to wait minutes for each save or open. Now it's so quick. Thanks again!

I have one super quick and presumably easy feature to request as you move from platform migration to new features: An option to have object selection and creation clear the previous selection.

I can't tell you how many times I've accidentally deleted valuable objects in processes like this:
• select some solid and do something with it
• pan the view somewhere else
• draw a circle
• extrude the circle to make a cylinder
• hit the delete key to delete the circle

Hey wait a minute! Where's my original object? It's gone because I didn't remember that it was selected when I drew the circle. (One could argue that allowing the extrude command to function at all when a solid was selected is a bug.)

I strongly feel that selecting an object without modifier keys, or creating an object should clear any previous selection. This is the way that (probably) every other object-drawing program works. Its the way all word processing and other types of GUI programs work too.

Since having selection and creation ADD to the current selection is the way that MOI has traditionally operated, I know you can't just change it, but PLEASE provide a setting in Options to have selection work the way a lot of people, including myself, expect it to.

In this optional mode, please make it so that holding the shift key while making a selection DOES add to the existing selection, both when selecting an object in the rendering and when selecting all objects of a given name/type/style. ie: Holding the shift key takes you back to MOI's traditional selection style.

Thanks again!

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 From:  OSTexo
9100.175 
Hello,

Esc is your friend if that happens to be your workflow. From a UX perspective how MoI selects and modifies objects in space is, in my opinion, one of it's greatest strengths. Many other design packages are hamstrung by lack of usability improvement in that critical area or try half baked implementations that slow down this frequent process. Asking a user to remember a more complex operation leads to confusion and frustration with a product.
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