The ZClassRoom is free! ;)
http://pixologic.com/zclassroom/

And ZBrush Core is sufficient for 3D Print ! ;) ( 150 $)
But sure we can't say that is a very easy prog! :)

Hi Pilou,

> ZBrush can makes some very precise things

No, not at all in the same sense as a NURBS modeler does. For example in a NURBS modeler if you do a boolean cut with a circle it's guaranteed that the shape of the hole is circular, either exactly a circle if it's on a plane or in the worst case fit to a specific tolerance level (in MoI 0.001 units).

In a polygon modeler like ZBrush there is just not any similar focus on precise geometry like that.

Now if you're only generating rendered images from the models you could certainly say that it's ok to have unknown precision as long as it looks good. But for manufacturing it's a very different case.

- Michael

Hi Zymon,

I spoke to you over in ZBrushCentral (I'm chrisd over there).

I think the difficulty that you might find in addition to learning the different applications is that some of the things you wish to do are not easily combined into a single process or application.

ZBrush has no absolute units system, so its really not possible to make things fit into a real environment, or build something using actual measurements. However, it excels at real 3d texturing which is what you described as an important feature. There are other apps that can do this too, although ZBrush one of the best. Blender is also fairly good at this, and given that its open source, its the best deal around.

Using Moi or another CAD type application to do the precise building as a nurbs model means exporting to a mesh (triangulated) format to create the 3d texturing that will 3d print. There is no good way to combine nurbs modeling and 3d texturing in a single application. Nurbs does not represent high frequency detail well (such as what occurs in nature) and typically results in a "melted" effect or softening of the detail. There are applications that can use displacement with nurbs, or convert a mesh to a nurbs object. However, If the desire is to create a crisp or realistic 3d texture, then nurbs will be unsuitable.

Hi Pilou!

You can ask everywhere.
If you want to be a serious and professional user of ZBrush or other high-end packages the "free" courses are not enough.
It doesn't matter how smart are you.

Software with steep learning curve need to be taught by other professional power users,
folks that use it every day with real use cases.

Ciao!

Sure but you can find some free tuts by Pro :)
for example here 532 tuts...
https://www.3dtotal.com/tutorials/ZBrush/?

Hi Zymon,

I'm an avid user of both MoI and ZBrush, and I can say from experience that they can perfectly complement each other.

MoI is a very clear, user-friendly and intuitive tool to create precise and perfectly curved models. The complex nature of NURBS math allows for perfectly smooth surfaces, particularly hard-surface models, with the extra advantage of not having to think about polygonal topology.

MoI is fantastic for curve-based modeling, which is a weakness of ZBrush. For example, I use MoI often to trace paper sketches using curves as a basis for my models.

MoI is also very suitable for working in accurate dimensions, unlike ZBrush, as someone else already mentioned in this discussion.

The biggest strength of ZBrush lies in organic sculpting, high-polygon detailing, and in unifying and smoothing complex branching models without the filleting limitations you sometimes encounter in NURBS-based tools.

Maybe this analogy might be applicable: ZBrush is like a 3D Photoshop, while MoI is like a 3D Illustrator. One can't be replaced by the other, and they perfectly complement each other with their own features.

If you've got any questions regarding this matter, please feel free to ask. Good luck.

Dear All,

The attached are the sort of images I wanted to turn into patterns and 3d textures, that I can intergrate into a 3d prnted surface or CNC milled thing. Maybe take the different bits and compile into a new composition similar to a bas-refief. (Please ignore the flatter plainer images)

I have other ideas but this seemed an easier first step.

I will add another image soon

Thanks for all your help so far BTW.

Regards,

Hi,

For sculptuing I was looking at carving out shapes in a lofted form ( like a crown molding or a cornice or skirting).

The attached was my first thought, but tell me if this is very advanced as I really dont want to be stuck with a task that is way too hard for a jobbing sketchup type od guy like me. I was hoping I could have a form that I could chip away at, adding and subtracting forms but the final 3D print needs to be sharp.

Regards,

Simon

Its me again.

I would love to be able to make a displacemnt map of the items in the attached image, then use these geometry to layer the different patterns together into a flat compostion - sort of like a base refief.

Sorry to send 3 emails of examples.

Thanks for the very informative discusions so far!!

Regards,

Hi Zymon, thanks for posting some examples! Well it seems that you have a very different idea of what's a "simple" model than I do since I'd consider almost everything you posted to be complex and highly detailed. MoI won't be very good at making things with high frequency bumps in it like it looks like you need.

Probably ZBrush is the better tool for you although one thing you may want to explore is using MoI and ZBrush in combination with each other, building your base forms with all smooth surfaces in MoI and then bringing them into ZBrush to add detailing.

- Michael

A photogrammetry application like Photoscan would work ... need lots of pictures with the right conditions to build a good model. Then ZBrush or similar app could be used to create the displacement maps.

This type of modeling should be done according to my opinion with the subdivision surfaces, with moi you can also do some of these well, but with Z-brush you have to be an expert.

Some example made with software like Blender 3D

https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/decoration

https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/architectural/decoration/architectural-ornament-vol-04

Hi Zymon,

I second Michael's suggestion: MoI is great for establishing clean and sharp base models, and ZBrush is great for automatic retopology and adding intricate details, using alpha stamping.

It's true that the ZBrush interface is an odd beast, and takes patience and studying to get used to, but once you know what the tools do and where to find them, it really makes sense. Two tips:

1: Watch the many free ZBrush video tutorials at http://pixologic.com/zclassroom/ and YouTube, to get past the initial steep learning curve.

2: Start creating your own custom ZBrush UI as soon as you get the hang of the software, because the default UI doesn't contain many tools. You can search Google (Images) for custom ZBrush UI inspiration.

Regards,

— Metin

———————

visualization • pixel / voxel art • illustration • animation • 3D (print) design — https://metinseven.com

One of the last ZBC Top raw ;)

Thanks for your help. I thought it would be a matter of using a displacment map to make the decorative parts - thats propably my inexperience. But I think you are all right. Make the object in MOI (what about sketchup?) then use zbrush to add texture.

Its rather expensive though, to say that I will not be using all the freeform modelling functions. I wounder if the reduced version would do enough for my uses.

Simon

I am going to try that today!! But with Recap (its free as a student)

Hi Zymon,

you can derive a displacment map from photos with CrazyBump for example and then apply this map to
a mesh. However in order to 3D print the displacement you have to convert it to a mesh. If you can
create alpha maps from yor photos you could use them in ZBrush to obtain a detailed mesh.

Regards
Stefan

While you've already spent a lot of time in Zbrush, you may want to also look at 3D Coat. Because it is a voxel modeler (whereas Zbrush is a surface modeler) 3d Coat will always create manifold objects, which are inherently better for 3D printing. The same is true for MoI as it creates manifold objects too, but without the ability to sculpt.

Like Chip mentioned, 3D Coat is definitely also worth checking out as a much more affordable alternative to ZBrush with similar tools. And like ZBrush, 3D Coat also combines very well with MoI 3D.

Hi everyone!

I want to echo Metin and Chipp.

As some of you already knows, I'm a very enthusiast user of 3DC and I can say that for about 400 USD you can get an amazing and super powerful
companion for Moi :)