Hi chippwalters,

and thank you for your reply.

Regarding the tools that 3D-Coat provide, keep in mid this very good workflow :

1) Use Voxel modelling to define the main shape of your model.
A great feature of Voxels is the way they easily and quickly handle boolean operations.

2) Increase the Voxel density during the refinement of the model

3) Jump to Surface mode when you want to add the final details.
In Surface mode use as much as you can Live Clay tools because they offer subdivision surface only where needed.
While you are in Surface mode and have already added the finest details, never go back to Voxel mode for that object,
but if you need to do some macro modification use Proxy Mode with Move/Pose tool.
("Menu Geometry -> Caching -> Toggle Proxy Mode" and "Menu Geometry -> Proxy Method -> Decimate 4X").


P.S. Just out of curiosity...did you get a look at First Official Contest Winners ?
(http://3dcoat.com/forum/index.php?/topic/19893-first-official-contest-winners/)

Best,

- Marco (mkdm)

Hi Michael,

> I still have a little bit of hope to try and make an outer 3D edit frame that might retain some of those qualities

Sounds good...

Ciao!

- Marco (mkdm)

Absolutely I understand.

Just thinking outloud here.. Of course the big winner in the Edit Frame is the fact it's pretty much out of the way and for the most part modeless (on when something is selected and different modes when you engage different modifier keys).

My current best thinking is that it may get somewhat confusing in 3D space-- how to combine scaling (1D,2D and 3D), rotation (plus rotation lock increments), and translation (again 1D,2D and 3D) in one set of controls which is intuitive to use in a edit frame type gizmo. Not to mention having to switch between local and global axis modes. And, one of the hassles of the current 2D Edit Frame is it's difficulty in scaling in one direction orthogonally. Too often it just snaps out of the orthogonal mode and into full scale, which doesn't happen with a Gizmo.

I can see how creating a Gizmo could be quite the task, plus how it will automatically 'get in the way' with the current display. Maybe holding down a modifier key will toggle between Edit Frame (orthogonal view, NONE 3d view) and a Gizmo view in all views.

I've also seen a small gizmo mode icon show up outside the bounding box of the selected object. This can toggle between different gizmo configs: rotate, scale, translate. Perhaps an option but yet introduces even more modes.

Still, fwiw, I think once you add groups and instances and hierarchies, the current system will have to change.

Thanks for that write up Marco. I actually did try and use some features (like Extrude) in Surface mode and really didn't see much difference. It sounds like using Live Clay in S mode is the secret. I'll have to go back and try again.

Yes, I did take a fast look (on my iPhone) of both the PBR shaders and the contest winners and runners up. While *very* nice, I noticed most didn't have close ups of hard models, which is of course a worse case scenario for topology modelers. The car model was nice but I couldn't get close enough to see it. Plus, the workflow for a car model must be something short of horrendous in 3D Coat-- unless you have mad sculpting skills and a wacom-- neither which I have or intend to have.

Keep in mind, just like MoI, I'm looking for quick 'get in' and 'get out', which is why I like MoI and SketchUp. I can literally go months without using either one and jump back in pretty much where I left off. I'd like to be able to do the same in 3D Coat as it 'fills' a hole in my 3D arsenal.

BTW, as long as you're giving tips, how would you add the flex hose pattern to a hose object created with curve as in this picture. (I know, it's easy to do with flow in MoI!) Also, how does one create 'glass' in PBR?

Hi chippwalters,

and good morning.

1) > I'd like to be able to do the same in 3D Coat as it 'fills' a hole in my 3D arsenal.

For me too 3D-Coat is the "missing link" between Nurbs (Moi/Rhino) and Poly/SDS (Rocket3F/NVIL).

2) > unless you have mad sculpting skills and a wacom-- neither which I have or intend to have.

If you want to easily work with sculpting software, for some situations a Wacom it's necessary.
I can suggest you the "Wacom Intuos Pro Medium". An excellent product with very good cost/benefit ratio.
I often use it and it's a big time saver.

3) > BTW, as long as you're giving tips, how would you add the flex hose pattern to a hose object created with curve as in this picture. (I know, it's easy to do with flow in MoI!)

Here's a simple tut the I have made for you and it's about the Spline tool.
The example is very coarse and easy, but with the right time it's possible to do sharper and polished models.

http://take.ms/LAWNw

I suggest you to do it in Voxel mode and eventually, if you want, you can further transform the object to Surface mode.
Splines works well also in Surface mode but are much, much more heavy and time consuming because
drawing with Spline tool involves boolean operations, that are very heavy in Surface mode.

4) Also, how does one create 'glass' in PBR?

As I wrote some times ago one of the actual features that PBR in 3D-Coat misses it's just materials with Transparency/Refraction Index.
At Pilgway they are working on it.

But there's someone very skilled that has created a bunch of smart materials that simulates glass and transparency.
Look at http://3dcoat.com/forum/index.php?/topic/18542-smart-material-procedural/
( buy at https://gumroad.com/michaelgdrs)

Have a nice day,

- Marco (mkdm).

Hi Marco,

GREAT tutorial. Thanks. I was able to follow along and replicate quickly. I'll keep that in mind.
I tried a Wacom years ago and it didn't suit me. I prefer a direct drawing approach at this time (and I do so on my iPad Pro with Pencil). Thanks though for the suggestion.

Yes, I did see the glass textures from this same link you sent previously. I wonder how they do it? Any ideas?

Great stuff -- Thank you -- !!

Hi chippwalters,

You are welcome!

> Yes, I did see the glass textures from this same link you sent previously. I wonder how they do it? Any ideas?

Hmmm....no, no idea right now.

My texturing/painting skill is yet very coarse because I'm focusing mostly on modelling.

I can only say that all those stuff was made by a certain "MICHAEL BITSAKIS Lead 3D Artist , Render Expert at Instant Light PBR Renderer",
and looking at his catalog (https://www.artstation.com/artist/michaelgdrs) I think that he is a very skilled man in texturing and rendering :)

Let's take a look at these pages for a better understanding of its products (including 3D-Coat PBR materials) :

1) Whole catalog : https://www.artstation.com/artist/michaelgdrs
2) 3D-Coat smart materials FAKE SSS GLASS : https://www.artstation.com/artwork/41nm8
3) Page on 3D-Coat forum : http://3dcoat.com/forum/index.php?/topic/18542-smart-material-procedural/

P.S. It seems that this upcoming realtime renderer "Instant Light PBR Renderer" it's very promising.
Reading the article at http://www.instantlightrt.com/try-buy.html, this renderer will be a perfect companion for 3D-Coat.
In the article we can read :
"Plugins / Presets for your favourite paint software (3D-Coat).
Officially on next Beta release of 3D Coat
​(Paint room -- Export Objects and Textures -- Instant Light )"

PUBLIC BETA ETA ​DECEMBER 25 2016

I'll buy with the preorder (50% off) : http://www.instantlightrt.com/try-buy.html


Have a nice day and see you,

- Marco (mkdm)

Hi TyRuben,

You are welcome!

- Marco (mkdm)

Hi Marco,

thanks for the link for InstantLight renderer. Another one which i like very much and use (under OS X) is Marmorset Toolbag2, which supports PBR workflow from 3DCoat too. Turntables renders super fast and have more settings than 3DCoats render engine.

https://www.marmoset.co/toolbag

Regards
Stefan

Hi futagoza,

Ok I already knew Marmorset Toolbag2 and it's an excellent product but it costs about 150USD (or more) while
InstantLight in preorder it's only 50USD.
And it promises a lot....CPU + GPU, AO, CLayRender, etc...

Thanks,

- Marco (mkdm)

Hi Chip
I seem to remember seeing some discussion around the interpretation of the 3d Coat competition rules. There was some ambiguity and an implication that any other software could be used in addition to 3d Coat. So its possible that some entries would not have been purely done in 3d Coat. I must go have a look.

Thanks for your 3d Coat tutorial. I didn't know about making decals before I watched it.
Regards
Keith

Hi Chipp Walters and everyone.

Take a look to the new 4.7.17 beta of 3D-Coat!!
(http://3dcoat.com/forum/index.php?/topic/19525-3d-coat-47-beta-testing-thread/)

Added many new shaders very useful for prototyping purposes and
a new exporting preset for the all brand new beta InstantLight realtime renderer!!
(I'm a beta tester of this product)

Here's a brief video : http://take.ms/eM3R1 of my 3D-Coat.

Best,

Hey Marco,

Thanks for keeping me up-to-date. Been working with 3D Coat a bit lately-- still trying to find it's "place" in my workflow...

On another subject, I'm trying to put Octane into my render pipeline and using SketchUp to do the scene setup-- what a mess. Not sure it will work as the SU plugin is of quite dubious quality!

FWIW, I do like how 3D Coat has hierarchies, instancing and grouping. Michael, you might want to take a peak if you haven't.

Basically, they use "Layers" (as in Pshop) with the standard layer controls (delete, duplicate, new) at the bottom of the palette. You can drag layers around to form hierarchies. Each layer as a 'settable' origin as in translation and rotation zero-sets. This way you can rotate and move wherever you want and still bring it back to zero.

Hi chippwalters and good morning.

> "...On another subject, I'm trying to put Octane into my render pipeline..."

I see that you are particularly focused on the production of "concept 3d design".

So...why don't you move yourself to the world of the new and extremely powerful "realtime PBR rendering" ??

This kind of product is getting better and better and in most cases they surpass even the quality of standard renderer but at a fraction of time.

I have used for some time Marmorset Toolbag 2, an excellent and very robust PBR render engine, and now they announced their ToolBag 3!

But now I decided to give a serious chance to the all brand new InstantLight, the newest PBR render engine on the market,
that leverages on latest and extremely powerful DirectX/CUDA GPU.
I'm a beta tester of this product and I can say that is very promising and above all its developing team is giving to it a very good
workflow when coupled with 3D-Coat!

And they announced that in the next betas we will have for the first time "VERTEX SHADER FOR VOXELS!!!!"

The developing team is working extremely hard on it and also it's UI is in a beta stage.

And, last but not least, InstantLight it's half the price of ToolBag 3...

These are the main links :

http://www.instantlightrt.com/

https://www.marmoset.co/

Best!

Already purchased it. Doesn't work on Mac yet, but that's not a problem.

As you know, it's much more difficult to create full on photoreal images using realtime PBR. Vray, Octane and even KeyShot still do a better job. That said, I have been experimenting in UE4 and PBR and Occulus to work out the best photoreal.

I do plan on playing around with the new beta of InstantLight as soon as possible. :-)

> "...As you know, it's much more difficult to create full on photoreal images using realtime PBR..."

Yes, you're right. In fact I also own a license of the very good Thea Render
that I use for true photorealistic renderings, thanks above all to its wonderfull unbiased engine.

But with my actual config (the best that I can have for the moment), true photorealistic renderings take too much time,
even if with the Thea Render's presto CPU+GPU engine the overall quality of renderings its quite good with a decent amount of time.
(My actual config is Clevo Laptop i7 4790K 4.4 Ghz, 32 Gb Ram, SSD 512 and fair good but not so powerful and modern Nvidia Quadro K3100M 4GB).


But I must say that PBR engines really impressed me because they're getting better and better.

Anyway...see you and have a nice day!

Marco,

I, too, have Thea! :-)

Octane is damn impressive with it's realtime UNBIASED renderer, and runs pretty darn fast on my GTX 1080 + 980ti. Plus it has support for atmospherics and particles, which are key to great scene renders. I look forward to trying Instalight, as I know it has atmospherics and particle support as well. It'll be interesting to see if they can figure out the UX/UI as that's one of the strengths of programs like MoI and KeyShot.

> "...GTX 1080 + 980ti..."

What can I say ?
....both extraordinarily powerful GPUs!!! (..and much much expensive....)

But, I must admit that I love Quadro cards because they're unreachable when we talk about precision and speed for CAD modelling.
Even if they're not so powerful in DirectX PBR as GTX and Titan cards.

I hope that within a couple of years I can save some money to get a brand new Quadro card...but it's hard to say :)

Best,