Hi Michael
Just some questions too :)

1)
About the size info, isn't the lower tab from the MoI interface a better area to show this kind of stuff ? somewhere close to this



For me the upper right place is a really important place in MoI, where every tools options are showed, and I think the size info is not something really 'primary'.
I don't said it's not an important info, but maybe I will more look in the bottom for this numeric info, like the world position etc.

2)
Will style include shade mode (wireframe, solid, solid + wireframe etc), transparency, specular etc etc ? ... I mean is it some kind of surface editor that also include dx shader like for example world image reflection, toon shader, etc. Would be great if it might be compatible with stuff comming from shaderfx kind of software ->
http://www.lumonix.net/shaderfx.html.

A thumbnail system that will show the style look would be sexy too (if I really understand what styles are)

3)
Like few others, I can't wait to see any kind of system that will help to manage bigger scene ( layers =o) ? )

Hi Danny,

> Will there be an inherit properties sort of thing, so we
> can copy set properties from one object and copy to another ?

The current idea is that once you set properties on one object, a new style will then be available after that in the Styles section.

So if you want to apply the same properties to another object, select the other object, and then apply that new style to it.

I'll probably see how that works first, but I'm also thinking of adding a "Match" button to that flyout in the lower-left corner, which if you pushed it would let you pick an object and suck its properties over to the ones that you had selected before that.

- Michael

Hi Okapi,

> What interests me most, more than object properties, is the scene tree.
> Being able to assign objects to certain group/layers/parents etc....

This will be coming in another beta release beyond the next one.

My first area of focus is this properties panel stuff, and once that is wrapped up then I will be moving to that object browser / scene tree type thing.

It will probably take a few beta releases before it is all wrapped up and fully working.

- Michael

Hi Anis,

> How about editing the size of a sketch, solid and surface body ?

Actually you can do that currently with the Transform / Scale command.

But I am planning on some alternate ways to do it, I had been thinking of doing the editing on a "Details" dialog (which won't be ready for this next beta), but maybe I should revisit editing the size in that new Size readout as well.

- Michael

Hi Pilou,

> Maybe yes because for graphic aspect those above are
> maybe clashing with the all screen of the UI ;)

Those ones are just some quick test items, they are not the ones that will be in there when it is finished up.

- Michael

Hi Eric,

> It is very important for me that MoI be compatible with Rhino
> layers ... interchangeable in both directions.
> <...>
> Is this part of the overall plan?

Yes - I do want to have data transfer including layers.

They may not quite completely map since I'm not doing an implementation of "straight layers" within MoI, to try and avoid some of the limitations that system has.

I think you'll probably be able to choose whether you want to export MoI Groups as layers, or whether you want to export MoI Styles as layers. And maybe the default should be Styles since that will be a singular property of an object similar to how an object can only be on one layer in Rhino.

This interchange with layers will not be part of the first beta with this stuff in it though, my initial focus is on getting a good UI and workflow set within MoI and once that is looking good I will be looking at data interchange after that.

- Michael

Hi Burr,

> Will the size be "editable" from that properties page?

I was thinking that it would be editable from a "Details" dialog that you would pop up with an additional button (which is not going to be ready for this next beta though).

But now I've been thinking about making that field more directly editable as well, I think I'll experiment with that some today.


> Opacity/Transparency anywhere in the future?

Definitely in the future at some point! But not likely for v2.

- Michael

Hi PaQ,

> About the size info, isn't the lower tab from the MoI
> interface a better area to show this kind of stuff ? somewhere
> close to this

There isn't really any room left down in there for something wide like that - on a 1024x768, or also even a 1280x1024 screen with large fonts, that bottom row is pretty much full right now already.

Eventually I will probably need to do something about this, and have things like some optional controls that only appear when you have more room down there on your particular screen (a user editable toolbar where you could drag and drop buttons to could work well for this). But so far I have tried to avoid doing that and have attempted to have just one UI that works with all screens right now.


> For me the upper right place is a really important place
> in MoI, where every tools options are showed, and I think
> the size info is not something really 'primary'.

That properties stuff I showed in that upper-right area only shows up when you are not in a command, and therefore have no command options being displayed. It's pretty much the main blank area that I have to leverage that works on all screen resolutions.

Just like it shows the "tools options" for the active tool, think of it as showing the "objects options" for the currently selected object when you are in selection mode before starting a command.

Anyway that's the other logic behind having the stuff that can change depending on what is selected (which includes size readout) all be in one location there.



> Will style include shade mode (wireframe, solid, solid + wireframe
> etc), transparency, specular etc etc ? ...

Eventually yes, but probably not for v2.


> I mean is it some kind of surface editor that also include dx
> shader like for example world image reflection, toon shader, etc.

It won't have that kind of an editor in it yet - think of it more as an overall mechanism and area of the UI that will hold such things when they are added in the future.

Those will become additional tabs on the left side, to control those additional properties.

Then a "Style" is a bundle of all those possible properties, so that you can set up a kind of property template and apply numerous properties (all relating to visual display) in just one click.


I'm thinking that probably there will also be a "Styles" section in the scene browser tree view thing as well, which hopefully can use the same mechanism for groups for hiding / showing / selecting objects that all have a particular style easily.


> A thumbnail system that will show the style look would
> be sexy too (if I really understand what styles are)

Yup, I would like to do that eventually, like show a small curve or cube or something in there instead of just a color swatch. For v2 I think it will just be a plain swatch though.

- Michael

Looking good Michael.
Really looking forward to the next beta. :)

Thanks a lot to take some of your time to reply us :)

Just waiting patiently the next beta !

Hi PaQ,

> Thanks a lot to take some of your time to reply us :)

No problem! It actually can help me to answer questions, etc... It helps to clarify whether what I'm doing makes any sense or not! :) (let me know if it doesn't make sense!)

I was originally going to try to jam some kinds of tabs or things to hold a bunch of different properties directly inside that upper-right area. But this new method is going to "scale up" to hold more stuff in the future a lot better while also keeping that top-level UI streamlined and simple.

- Michael

Looking good so far....

1) Will object browser / scene tree be within the same panel / area ?

2) I think units labels makes seance if they where somewhere close as PaQ mentioned.
Thought will it be more comfortable to the eye, intuitive if they on the top right corner ?...

Hi yannada,

> 1) Will object browser / scene tree be within the same panel / area ?

I think that is going to be an additional full size docked panel to the left of the current side pane, something like what was discussed here:
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=1944.1

- Michael

Okay Michael, I'm gonna jump out on a limb here...

Constraints. We already have them to a certain extent. I can limit tools to certain distances/angles already. But, what about preserving those distances/angles?

I have no idea how the GUI would represent a constraint, but, seems like the toolset is there already, just need a way to preserve the constraints as we continue working.

Hi TwinSnakes,

> I have no idea how the GUI would represent a constraint,
> but, seems like the toolset is there already, just need a way
> to preserve the constraints as we continue working.

Constraints are kind of a whole different area of stuff.

Normally a constraint-based program will represent them in the GUI by things like dimension lines, and let you click on the dimensions to change the values and recalculate the shape.

The recalculation can involve quite a lot of detailed stuff like extending certain parts, sliding other parts over, maintaining other constraints at the same time, etc... That involves a constraint solver and that solver part is not something that I have already available. That kind of solver mechanism is a lot different than being able to specify a line length while you draw, when you change the line length in the solver, the solver will make a lot of changes to other pieces of the drawing in addition to the line that was just edited.

I do expect to have a deeper history and parameter editing function in MoI which would let you do things like edit the control points of one of the original curves you drew and then update the model to reflect the changes (this already works to a certain degree) but that is a pretty separate thing from constraints.

I don't really expect to have constraints in MoI for the foreseeable future, that's something that you will need to use a system like SolidWorks, SolidEdge, Pro/E, etc... for that kind of workflow.

- Michael

Thanks for all the replies, Michael.

It sounds really good ... I look forward (as always) to the next beta.

cheers
eric

The next beta will be launch next week ( I wish :) )

Like, say, 9am, 17 Nov, Ausie Adelaide Time!

Brian
(9.30 is ok!)

I got a method set up for editing the size now...




You can put in expressions like 22/5 in there, and also use a + or - sign at the start to make a relative change in size.

- Michael

COOL, thank you sir...