I would like some input from Michael, Danny and other's.

I would like to get a "Robust" package to move up to and work with MoI. I love the 3dm and the way it comes into Cam side.

My main intrest is in the cam side but also am looking at the rendering, archi, scene type capabilities as well (seems they dont alway's go together).

I would have to do the "training" thing and invest mucho time into being proficient with the new package so ease isnt the need. Also cost (under 5000) isnt the decision factor either.


I beleive NURBS package is what I want.
I've been looking at Rhino and also Maya. (I think Parametric is well beyond me)

Do maya's NURBS equate to Rhino's?
Many use SolidWorks. Are they NURBS?

Am I on the right track?

I understand some choice depends on the desired outcome, but want input from some who have been doing it for awhile.

Thanks,
Burr

Hi Burr,

IMO Rhino would be your ideal companion, I use MoI with Rhino and it works great !

Depends what you are doing with it really but we use these two systems to feed our CAM
system...no problems at all. The other advantage in that is that Michael knows Rhino better
than most too :-)

Good Luck dude

Narrowing it down. Maya's out. Seems Rhino may be a helper to something else I buy.

Any input on Solidworks?

Hi Burr,

Is it a CAM package you are looking for, so that you can import MoI models into and start machining or a CAD/CAM package which has both the modeling tools and then you jump into the CAM module or plugin of that same package to start programming for machining?

There are a few guys with the forum who use either, or both.

As for Solidworks it's mainly taylored for the Mech. Eng sector no Archi there, and yes it uses NURBS and has a lot of third party support, as in specialty plugins for specific sectors, so does Rhino though.

Solidworks uses Parametric design method, which has a history tree of all the features you've used.

If you maybe be more specific on what you want to achieve or manufacture it might make it a bit easier, at the moment your request is quite broad as in terms of CAD, CAM, Architecture and Rendering.

Cheers

Hi Burr, yeah like Danny mentions it would be easier to give advice if you could give some more specific examples of what you want to do.

Maya would be more if you wanted to do animation and rendering type stuff, but it wouldn't really be the right thing for CAM related stuff.

SolidWorks is really great for mechanical design, but not really quite as general purpose for other things such as architecture. On the other hand, Rhino is not at the same level for mechanical design, but a lot more flexible for using in different areas, like it would fit better for architecture type work.

CAM and architecture is something of an unusual mixture, so definitely more details would help...


> (I think Parametric is well beyond me)

Not really, I mean if you're willing to do training and stuff like that you can certainly learn how to use it, it follows a pretty logical pattern. It's more difficult than MoI but should be feasible if you are able to devote some time to it.

- Michael

Thanks for the inputs Danny and Michael.
I think I've been a little confused on what "parametric" means so I'm not so scared now as I think it's not what I thought.

I'm figuring out I'll need a "couple" tools to do the things i want. The main thing is a solid start.

My question I guess is towards this. Danny, an NX guy, could probably open Rhino and go to work. definatley MoI and do sweeps, revovles etc. The knowledge of the general nature of things makes him "A qualified Designer". The move to a new software would more or less be a bit of time learning the interface and a few lingo differences.

If Burr spends his time learning "Maya", He still has no clue when he wants to model cnc stuff to send to his cam package.

Searching all the products seems to show me this. Packages do design that is sent to second cam software, or, cam software tries to say they can design also. (obviously 2 seperate feilds)

I'm a single fellow in my house. I'm not in an environment with 50 other guy's sharing work. However, I may need to step into the world of mechanical designer, sending things to CAM, but still want the ability to model 1.2 mile mall level building design. May be an oxymoron (moron being key word there!).

I suppose the point would be that I realise there would be different softwares involved for what I'm asking, though, my time learning "SOMTHING" would be best spent.

(Danny, could and nx guy step into archi software and learn buildings? Could a buildings guy do mold injection?) etc, etc.....

Differences in Rhino and Solidworks. If I was proficient in Rhino, could I use SW? If I spend time learning SW, does Rhino become second nature tool I could purchase And work right off? What are these softwares strong and weaks! I may be investing a couple years into learning a software. One may "Rollover" into the other better.

Does this make sense?

I've been looking at OneCNC, MasterCam. Rhino, Solidworks. the first 2 as CAM packages only, the second two as design.
(I'm open to Rhino supplementing Solidworks, or vise versa)

The package should be able to do Mechanical design above all else. sent to CNC. The archi and other is just for ability.

Burr

I suppose I want to be able to do Plastic injection Molding, and Parametric change design, and also draw a 50 story building with all the detail.

The key out of my last rambling would be....

Where is my 2 year training best spent. Are the 2 training courses complimentary or exclusive? (Hey Burr, 4 years of training numb skull!) :)

Burr

Hi BurrMan,

The next thing i want is a computer
like HAL 9000 'A Space Odyssey'
(just joking)

I think programs like Moi3d are already
a good step in the right direction
So i can't pretend to much from programmers
like Michael

50 jears ago nobody could imagine that we
modeled something using nurbs

The next thing i want is a computer
like HAL 9000 'A Space Odyssey'
(just joking)>>>>

My first computer was an Apple given to me with no OS on it. I turned it on and saw a blinking cursor......

I typed "HELLO"......., waiting for a response. :)

Called a friend who programmed at NASA and asked why it didnt respond and he told me to get a book on programming. I wrote my first goto, and so it began. I am interested in the design thing.

Oh yea, HAL is here!

Thanks,
Burr

Hi Burr,

> an NX guy, could probably open Rhino and go to work.
> definatley MoI and do sweeps, revovles etc.
> The knowledge of the general nature of things makes him "A qualified Designer".
> The move to a new software would more or less be a bit of time learning the
> interface and a few lingo differences.

I feel there is a misconception here, please correct me if I'm wrong.
In some ways the above statement is true, once you've gained experience in modeling with one 3d software if you use another 3d software the learning curve is greatly reduced compared to someone who has just started out in the 3d world.
But, using NX does not make you a better designer than someone using MoI or Rhino, these are just tools used to express ideas and designs in this digital world of ours, otherwise as in the past we would still have great ideas and designs but would be presented via some other medium, be it on paper or an actual hand crafted model.

> could and nx guy step into archi software and learn buildings?
> Could a buildings guy do mold injection?

Yes, but both guys would have to be trained in these fields and gain experience, you have to realize that the software doesn't teach you how to design, the designer uses the software to convey their ideas.

I've always had the belief, If you are passionate about something, I mean real passion and interest, you will learn everything there is to know about that subject, so if a Mechanical Designer has a passion and interest in Architecture they would learn everything there is to know about it and become a good architect because they enjoy doing it.
But on the other hand if you are passionate about 3D modeling you will become a good 3D modeler, but it doesn't make you a designer.


> I suppose I want to be able to do Plastic injection Molding, and
> Parametric change design, and also draw a 50 story building with all the detail.
> Where is my 2 year training best spent. Are the 2 training courses complimentary or exclusive?

When you say training, is that training in the aspect of those fields of expertise, because there is a lot more theory and experience involved in these fields than there is 3d modeling, as I mentioned before 3d modeling software is only a tool just like the 'T' Square and drawing board was in the past.

Hope we're on the same page here.

Sure Danny your right on. If I can convey my intrest I'm sure you could answer.

When I say training, I'm not going to college to become a Mechanical Engineer. I mean going to "Solidworks" Classes or "Rhino" Classes. I think the softwares offer training. I would have to start at "Know's Nothing" and progress through to a point where my intrest, ability and needs are met.

Lets seperate 2 area's here.

1.Design, inspiration and ability (Individual)
2.Tools available, Environment exposure, resources to draw from (circumstances)

I'm refering more to 2.

When I talk of you being proficient in NX I mean we dont have to explain "2 rail sweep" to you. more so there are functions in Rhino or Solidworks I would not understand as MoI is not in this area. You would know this as it must be standard stuff.

>>Yes, but both guys would have to be trained in these fields and gain experience, you have to realize that the software doesn't teach you how to design, the designer uses the software to convey their ideas.
>>.

Theres the point. An artistic guy would have to know what the toolset is capable of and be aware of whats available to move forward. Learning the software opens the possibilities and also "I beleive" sets limitations.(These limitations are overcome by the experience you mention, but I would be limited in my approach until I gain this experience. ie; different software does different things). With this I could utilize different tools in the future as i realize what I need to perform.

Hence, Taking a Rhino Class to learn their software will open many avenues for me. ("I never thought of it like that!).

So I guess does the 2 equate (Solidworks and Rhino) is a question to expound on. Does one give a more "Well rounded" experience or are they so mutually exclusive that you need both classes? Does well versed in one move easier into the other? (a Solidworks guy may use rhino for that thing rhino does so well, but he doesnt have to be an expert to utilize rhino... already knows functions of design, but may not work vise-versa, ie; would rhino guy be able to or need to utilize solidworks?.)

This could go on forever I suppose.

I'll be designing actual parts and things like assemblies, but i wont be designing buildings. Interoperabilty is a key factor.

Burr

Hi Burr,

> I'll be designing actual parts and things like assemblies,
> but i wont be designing buildings. Interoperabilty is a key factor.

Well there's a key word that points to Solidworks, "assemblies".

This is where Solidworks has it's strengths over Rhino, for example in Solidworks when you do an assembly you have the parts 'mated' and these mated faces are remembered by the software so if you move a face in one part say by making it slightly thicker, the mated part would automatically adjust to it, or if you have a shaft diameter linked to a hole diameter in another part, when you change the hole diameter the shaft will adjust accordingly, this is what parametrically linked is.
But Solidworks is mainly a solid modeler the surface toolset is not as rich as Rhino's, like it would be more difficult to achieve more organic shapes in Solidworks than it would in Rhino or MoI.

So you have to weigh up the strengths and weaknesses of each software with what you want to use it for.

Hope this helps.

Thanks Danny,
Seems they are just 2 different animals. May start with Rhino and later move to the parametric stuff. It's feature rich and I should learn most design concepts from there, and then expand out later.

MoI is allowing me to build some fundamentals to take to the next level as a base.

Burr

BTW: Can Parametric be NURBS? What is solidworks?

Hi Burr,

> BTW: Can Parametric be NURBS?

Yes - the standard type of parametric software generates NURBS objects. The objects themselves are NURBS using the same type of geometry that MoI use.

The stuff that makes it "parametric" is the workflow, the UI, and all the other history mechanisms and editing tools which are all extra things than just the NURBS surface geometry.


> What is solidworks?

It's a parametric history-based solid modeler.

- Michael

Hi Burr & All....

Basically I come from solidworks. I have been use solidworks for 3 years. Its a powerful solid & surface modeling also. The big different is solidworks have a parametric concept like Michael mentioned before. As I know solidworks is the easiest parametric modeling software.

But today my favourite software is MoI ( because the easy to use workflow & of course MoI is very affordable ).
You can open MoI file directly use solidworks. So it will give you a good combination.

You can find some solidworks video here : http://www.solidworks.com/pages/products/swofficepro/SWOfficePremium_VidVau_fore.html
Also check this link : http://download.rhino3d.com/download.asp?id=rhino-solidworks

OK, that is my opinion ;)

Thanks guy's. I think I would utilize both. The training I will start with Rhino for a bas then move to solidworks to add to the toolset.

Thanks again.
Burr