NGon WIP
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 From:  Schbeurd
162.46 

Render in Modo 202.
Not bad at all, but some missing geometry and artefacts...

I used the new output file

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 From:  Michael Gibson
162.47 In reply to 162.46 

> Render in Modo 202.
> Not bad at all, but some missing geometry and artefacts...
>
> I used the new output file

Hmmm, that is disappointing. I sort of assumed that Modo would be more robust in this area, as best I can tell right now those seem to be bugs in Modo's handling of ngons.

I closely examined the area where you've got a hole near the bottom in your test using the new output, and I just can't see anything wrong with the polygon structure there, it's a pretty simple 5-sided ngon..

But we'll see - maybe I'm putting out duplicate points or something that Modo doesn't like. (Edit: after checking, I can't find anything wrong there).

I've attached a file here that contains just that single 5-sided ngon. Can you please test this with modo and see if it will read it or not?

- Michael

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 From:  Schbeurd
162.48 In reply to 162.47 
> Hmmm, that is disappointing. I sort of assumed that Modo would be more robust in this area, as best I can tell right now those seem to be bugs in Modo's handling of ngons.

> I've attached a file here that contains just that single 5-sided ngon. Can you please test this with modo and see if it will read it or not?

I don't exactly know where the problem comes from, but I can confirm that models made out of quads and triangles only are correctly imported in Modo.
Your 5-sided ngon imported fine (see image)...
I'll continue my MoI to Modo experiments in the coming days... ;-))

Cya
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 From:  Schbeurd
162.49 

In Hexagon, I selected the part that makes problems in Modo. The selected poly is not exactly what I expected (see image : one click selected the whole blue polygon...) I thought that one click in the circled area would only have selected a face in this area...
Is it normal ?

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 From:  Michael Gibson
162.50 In reply to 162.49 
> Is it normal ?

It is - if you zoom in closely along the bottom edge you should be able to see that those pieces are all connected. The connection is a quite skinny piece so it is somewhat difficult to see unless you zoom in a lot.

It looks like Hexagon has done a proper job of handling the complex ngons.

The quality on ngon handling varies quite a lot because when it comes time to render the ngon, it must be triangulated. It is not a particularly easy task to create a triangulator that works properly on complex outlines.

- Michael
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 From:  Michael Gibson
162.51 In reply to 162.48 
Re: Modo import
> Your 5-sided ngon imported fine (see image)...

Hmm, that is kind of confusing. It is strange that it is able to handle it by itself but not when it is included in the larger mesh. It must have some problem with handling some other face in the mesh, and then that triggers some bug that affects other things that are processed after that point...

It seems like there are quite a lot of programs that can't handle the full ngons. I'll probably have to have it turned to only generate quads and triangles by default, and you can switch on the option to do full ngons.

- Michael
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
162.52 In reply to 162.51 

< It seems like there are quite a lot of programs that can't handle the full ngons
Or recode the Modo, ...import Obj too *<:O D

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 From:  Linker (KJELLO)
162.53 In reply to 162.17 
> The Npower mechanism adds numerous interior vertices.
> You don't end up with slivery quads, but you do end up
> with a large quantity of small ones.

You're right, I guess the only real reason to implement this kind of output would be if you got a lot of users requiring either deformable models or subdividable/smoothable models. (Catmul-Clark and Doo-Sabin really mess up those n-gon and sliver faces)
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 From:  Thor (MCHANNEMANN)
162.54 In reply to 162.19 

Hi Michael,

here is another file to try your updated obj exporter.
as you can see it messes up a lot when I export it,

best regards,

Thorsten

PS:
By the way when can we expect a new version with the quad only export?

EDITED: 16 Oct 2006 by MCHANNEMANN

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 From:  Michael Gibson
162.55 In reply to 162.54 
Hi Thorsten,

> here is another file to try your updated obj exporter.
> as you can see it messes up a lot when I export it,

Thanks for the sample! Here is what it looks like with n-gons: (Also .obj file attached)




> PS:
> By the way when can we expect a new version with the quad only export?

Well, it's not actually quad only, it is an "n-gon" only option where there will be polygons that have any number of sides, not just 4. But I think that there will also be more organized quads in the quad+triangle output as well.

There is still a fair amount of work to do on it, looks like it might be about a week or so before a new version with it is ready.

- Michael

EDITED: 15 Feb 2007 by MICHAEL GIBSON

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 From:  Thor (MCHANNEMANN)
162.56 In reply to 162.55 
Thnx a mil Michael,

I'm looking forward to it, some objects work fine by now already,
another thing very handy would be if we can export each object group with a different poly amount setting,
I had an nice spanish chair where I needed more details in the seat part and when I added it there the frame
was going insanly detailed and boosting the object from 8k polys to 50k polys.

Just a thought from myself

Regards,

Thor

PS:

It would be nice to have some kind of material setting like just colours and maybe transparency :-D
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 From:  Michael Gibson
162.57 In reply to 162.56 
> another thing very handy would be if we can export each object group
> with a different poly amount setting, I had an nice spanish chair where I
> needed more details in the seat part and when I added it there the frame
> was going insanly detailed and boosting the object from 8k polys to 50k polys.

This should be improved quite a large amount with the new meshing system as well - it's actually what I've been working on most recently.

With the new system, the density will increase much more gradually. When you want to add a little bit more detail it shouldn't increase in such large jumps elsewhere as the current beta does.

So this should hopefully reduce the need to set a bunch of different settings per object. But we'll see, when the new beta is available let me know if you still run into situations where it is a problem.

If you happen to have that spanish chair handy, if you post it I can give it a test.


> It would be nice to have some kind of material setting like just colours and
> maybe transparency :-D

Yup, this will happen eventually. I'm not sure exactly when.

- Michael
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 From:  Thor (MCHANNEMANN)
162.58 
Hi Michael here it is :-D
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 From:  Michael Gibson
162.59 In reply to 162.58 
> Hi Michael here it is :-D

Hi Thor, thanks, I can see the problem in the mesh there. Do you have the original .3dm file that you created the mesh from? If you can post that I will try meshing it with the new mesher to see if that problem is indeed reduced or not.

- Michael
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 From:  Thor (MCHANNEMANN)
162.60 In reply to 162.59 
Sorry Michael,

I picked the wrong file....

here it is,

enjoy,
THor
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 From:  Michael Gibson
162.61 In reply to 162.60 
Attached is what this looks like with the current new mesher. It seems better to me, what do you think?

There is one major area that is not handled completely - larger areas that have rather subtle shallow curves may not pick up as much detail as you would want. I might try a couple of ideas on fixing this part up too.

- Michael
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 From:  Thor (MCHANNEMANN)
162.62 
Thnx Michael,

it looks now far more like what I had in mind :-D

Thor
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 From:  Thor (MCHANNEMANN)
162.63 
Hi Michael,

maybe this helps you a bit:
http://graphics.cs.uiuc.edu/~garland/papers/ssq.pdf

Best regards,

Thor
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 From:  Michael Gibson
162.64 In reply to 162.63 
> maybe this helps you a bit:
> http://graphics.cs.uiuc.edu/~garland/papers/ssq.pdf

Hi Thor, it's very interesting, but it is a method that builds a quad mesh from a triangle mesh.

I'd expect this kind of functionality to be added to whatever program you're using that works on meshes. I'm probably not going to add a lot of mesh to mesh processing type functionality into MoI.

- Michael
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 From:  Schbeurd
162.65 
Did you notice the Moai statue on page 7 of the PDF ? ;-)))
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