NGon WIP
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU) 13 Oct 2006  (34 of 103) 
162.34 

A video from Steph who shows that some points are not "merged" but not visible to the eyes :)
So some surfaces are "open" !
http://annur.free.fr/MoI/PolyNM1.rar

Keep the good work :)

EDITED: 13 Oct 2006 by PILOU
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 From:  Michael Gibson 13 Oct 2006  (35 of 103) 
162.35 In reply to 162.25 
> From Steph
> Seems a little prob with normal :"Blue" is not good oriented! (so they go to internal object)

I think I have fixed the orientation problem now. Can he please try the attached version and see if it is properly oriented? Thanks!

- Michael

EDITED: 25 Aug 2008 by MICHAEL GIBSON
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 From:  Michael Gibson 13 Oct 2006  (36 of 103) 
162.36 In reply to 162.33 
> Does Moi will import OBJ ?

No, not for V1. I'm not really focusing on having polygon modeling tools in MoI at this point.

- Michael
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 From:  Michael Gibson 13 Oct 2006  (37 of 103) 
162.37 In reply to 162.34 
> A video from Steph who shows that some points are not "merged" but
> not visible to the eyes :) So some surfaces are "open" !

Yes, these are the so-called "T-junctions". I plan on fixing these, but that is going to be more complicated, probably not for a few days at least.

That is probably the most complicated part of finishing up this meshing system.

- Michael
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU) 13 Oct 2006  (38 of 103) 
162.38 In reply to 162.37 
An another one! Yes! Bryce 5 :)

EDITED: 13 Oct 2006 by PILOU
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU) 13 Oct 2006  (39 of 103) 
162.39 In reply to 162.37 

It's ok for Steph for the Normals with C4D :)
He ask to keep possibility of "welding" in option for the toon technic rendering in C4D :)

I shall remake tests with this new file :) (output2)

EDITED: 13 Oct 2006 by PILOU
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU) 13 Oct 2006  (40 of 103) 
162.40 
So with OBJ output2 :)
Same results just better for Wings3D : normals (blue) and some faces curious like in the little base circular round right down )
Silo ok
Amapi 6.1 OK
Bryce 5 OK

Anim8Or (triangles)
Kerkythea (triangles)
Metasequoia (triangles)

Maxwell Studio a lot of triangles !

Shade 7.21 do not load (Buffer overun)

Image for Wings3D

EDITED: 13 Oct 2006 by PILOU
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 From:  Michael Gibson 13 Oct 2006  (41 of 103) 
162.41 In reply to 162.39 
> He ask to keep possibility of "welding" in option for the
> toon technic rendering in C4D :)

Yes, there will definitely be an option for doing it or not, so don't worry, his toon rendering will be safe... :)

It may default to on, and he will just have to uncheck it for doing toon renderings.


I'm currently working on a way to have the density increase and decrease much more gradually as you move the slider, this should help reduce the current problem of trying to get a little bit more polygons in one area and having other places double in density and become too heavy.

- Michael
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU) 13 Oct 2006  (42 of 103) 
162.42 In reply to 162.41 

< his toon rendering will be safe.
Thx with that make toons like Tex Avery will be cool :D
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 From:  Kreten 13 Oct 2006  (43 of 103) 
162.43 
Very nice!
But yes as you said when you import this into Rhino it tends to get mesd up and triangulate:-(
Any way to avoid this so that you have quads in Rhino?
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 From:  Michael Gibson 13 Oct 2006  (44 of 103) 
162.44 In reply to 162.43 
> Any way to avoid this so that you have quads in Rhino?

No, not really. Trimmed areas just don't naturally generate minimal quads, they more naturally generate minimal n-sided polygons...

- Michael
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 From:  Schbeurd 14 Oct 2006  (45 of 103) 
162.45 
Some examples in Modo 202
Seems there are still some problems importing the geometry there...

More than 16000 vertices merged when I used the "merge" command !

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 From:  Schbeurd 14 Oct 2006  (46 of 103) 
162.46 

Render in Modo 202.
Not bad at all, but some missing geometry and artefacts...

I used the new output file
Attachments:
AttachmentMod_Render.jpg
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 From:  Michael Gibson 14 Oct 2006  (47 of 103) 
162.47 In reply to 162.46 

> Render in Modo 202.
> Not bad at all, but some missing geometry and artefacts...
>
> I used the new output file

Hmmm, that is disappointing. I sort of assumed that Modo would be more robust in this area, as best I can tell right now those seem to be bugs in Modo's handling of ngons.

I closely examined the area where you've got a hole near the bottom in your test using the new output, and I just can't see anything wrong with the polygon structure there, it's a pretty simple 5-sided ngon..

But we'll see - maybe I'm putting out duplicate points or something that Modo doesn't like. (Edit: after checking, I can't find anything wrong there).

I've attached a file here that contains just that single 5-sided ngon. Can you please test this with modo and see if it will read it or not?

- Michael
Attachments:
Attachmenttest_modo_ngon.obj
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 From:  Schbeurd 15 Oct 2006  (48 of 103) 
162.48 In reply to 162.47 
> Hmmm, that is disappointing. I sort of assumed that Modo would be more robust in this area, as best I can tell right now those seem to be bugs in Modo's handling of ngons.

> I've attached a file here that contains just that single 5-sided ngon. Can you please test this with modo and see if it will read it or not?

I don't exactly know where the problem comes from, but I can confirm that models made out of quads and triangles only are correctly imported in Modo.
Your 5-sided ngon imported fine (see image)...
I'll continue my MoI to Modo experiments in the coming days... ;-))

Cya
Attachments:
AttachmentNGon_Modo.jpg
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 From:  Schbeurd 15 Oct 2006  (49 of 103) 
162.49 

In Hexagon, I selected the part that makes problems in Modo. The selected poly is not exactly what I expected (see image : one click selected the whole blue polygon...) I thought that one click in the circled area would only have selected a face in this area...
Is it normal ?
Attachments:
AttachmentHexa_Modo.jpg
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 From:  Michael Gibson 15 Oct 2006  (50 of 103) 
162.50 In reply to 162.49 
> Is it normal ?

It is - if you zoom in closely along the bottom edge you should be able to see that those pieces are all connected. The connection is a quite skinny piece so it is somewhat difficult to see unless you zoom in a lot.

It looks like Hexagon has done a proper job of handling the complex ngons.

The quality on ngon handling varies quite a lot because when it comes time to render the ngon, it must be triangulated. It is not a particularly easy task to create a triangulator that works properly on complex outlines.

- Michael
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 From:  Michael Gibson 15 Oct 2006  (51 of 103) 
162.51 In reply to 162.48 
Re: Modo import
> Your 5-sided ngon imported fine (see image)...

Hmm, that is kind of confusing. It is strange that it is able to handle it by itself but not when it is included in the larger mesh. It must have some problem with handling some other face in the mesh, and then that triggers some bug that affects other things that are processed after that point...

It seems like there are quite a lot of programs that can't handle the full ngons. I'll probably have to have it turned to only generate quads and triangles by default, and you can switch on the option to do full ngons.

- Michael
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU) 15 Oct 2006  (52 of 103) 
162.52 In reply to 162.51 

< It seems like there are quite a lot of programs that can't handle the full ngons
Or recode the Modo, ...import Obj too *<:O D
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 From:  Linker (KJELLO) 16 Oct 2006  (53 of 103) 
162.53 In reply to 162.17 
> The Npower mechanism adds numerous interior vertices.
> You don't end up with slivery quads, but you do end up
> with a large quantity of small ones.

You're right, I guess the only real reason to implement this kind of output would be if you got a lot of users requiring either deformable models or subdividable/smoothable models. (Catmul-Clark and Doo-Sabin really mess up those n-gon and sliver faces)
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