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 From:  pressure (PEER)
10114.472 In reply to 10114.471 
Hi Michael,

I often wish that I could edit vector graphics in MoI because it has geometric drawing tools that don't exist in graphics editors. I do this a little now, but it's arduous because the layout and layer/group structure of an SVG/AI get destroyed by being imported into MoI and then exported out again as SVG/AI. I end up having to import only 1 layer or group at a time into MoI and then use fiducial marks to get things registered again in a graphics editor.

Keeping some layer or group structure is needed so that things like stroke weight, color, dashes, fills, etc. can be set again when back in a vector graphics editor.

Maintaining layout relative to a page boundary is needed so that layout and dimensions don't change visually or for printing and also to make copy-pasting between vector files easy without going through an alignment and scaling step each time.

It looks like this sort of thing has been discussed before:

http://moi3d.com/forum/lmessages.php?webtag=MOI&msg=9889.3

http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=10774.55

Getting this working probably won't be easy, but it would shave off a bunch of tedious work.

If anyone has figured out a streamlined workflow for editing vector graphics in MoI I'd love to hear about it.
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 From:  Michael Gibson
10114.473 In reply to 10114.472 
Hi Peer,

re:
> <....>
> Maintaining layout relative to a page boundary is needed

Unfortunately there is a vast amount of work that would be needed to manage a "paper space" environment inside of MoI. I don't expect for that to happen anytime soon, perhaps never.

In general it will work better using MoI alongside a 2D vector graphics program if the data flow is more unidirectional, like you're mainly bringing data from 2D vector graphics into MoI or creating it in MoI and sending it to the vector graphics program. Frequently ping-ponging the same data back and forth is not very workable.

- Michael
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 From:  pressure (PEER)
10114.474 In reply to 10114.473 
Hi Michael,

Thank you for giving a definitive answer.

- Peer
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 From:  pressure (PEER)
10114.475 In reply to 10114.473 
Hi Michael,

Having closed paths is critical to several common tasks in technical illustration:
  1. Closed outline curve so that the outline stroke can be aligned to the outside of the path rather than along center. This avoids having a thick outline overlap the inside of an object which is important when there are fine details along the outline.
  2. Hatching clipping mask like for adding a hatch pattern to indicate that a face has been cut by a cross section plane
  3. Fills such as block shading like this example:

    https://moi3d.com/forum/lmessages.php?webtag=MOI&msg=10770.1

    which was made by hand in a vector graphics editor by drawing closed curves and then filling them.

Needing closed paths has come up before:

https://technicalillustrators.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=211&start=7

http://moi3d.com/forum/lmessages.php?webtag=MOI&msg=6201.61

I've tried out a bunch of different ways of getting from the MoI's SVG/AI output to closed paths, but have found that Illustrator's Live Paint is the only one that works reliably. Several other vector graphics editors claim to have this capability, but they aren't reliable on MoI's vector output because of tiny geometry problems that are essentially invisible. Inkscape is reliable, but sometimes leaves a gap between the closed shape and the line art, and has other problems.

So, it would be helpful if another layer were added to MoI's SVG/AI output. This layer would contain nothing but closed paths.

A few approaches that might work:

- Peer
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
10114.476 In reply to 10114.475 
And something like Affinity Designer (low cost) who reload without problem PDF format from Moi3D ?

In any 3D position in the 3D Space inside Moi!

EDITED: 18 Jan 2023 by PILOU

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 From:  pressure (PEER)
10114.477 In reply to 10114.476 
Hi Pilou,

Yes, if MoI generated closed paths then Affinity Designer, Corel, Xara, Inkscape, etc. could use them. Though I was thinking mostly for SVG and AI since it doesn't seem like any most vector software can import PDF layers.

EDIT: Affinity Designer can import PDF layers

- Peer

EDITED: 19 Jan 2023 by PEER

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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
10114.478 In reply to 10114.477 
Ah...I see the problem! :)

Faces are not separated in "projection" ...so we must redraw them manually!
and of course that is not very speedy when there are "curvated" ones and some numerous "projected" intersections!
Not sure that Moi can do that presently...
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 From:  Michael Gibson
10114.479 In reply to 10114.477 
Hi Peer - Affinity Designer is able to import layers from PDF. That's the only one I know of that does it though.

- Michael
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
10114.480 In reply to 10114.479 
What do you name Layer inside Moi ? (Style? Style of Line ?)

Options PDF inside Moi
What is Prefix & Suffix ?


But i am not sure that resolve the little problem above?

EDITED: 18 Jan 2023 by PILOU

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 From:  Michael Gibson
10114.481 In reply to 10114.480 
Hi Pilou,

re:
> What is Prefix & Suffix ?

Prefix is something that will get added to the front of the layer name.

Suffix will get added to the end of the layer name.

Some description of this here:
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=10825.3

quote:
The layer can be set to either a specific name, or "From style" which will put it on a layer with the style name of the edge or face that the curve was generated from. You can also add a prefix or suffix to the style name so you can make silhouettes go on a layer named red_silhouettes instead of just "red".


- Michael
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
10114.482 In reply to 10114.481 
Ok! It's just labelling something...

And I believe maybe resolve my little problem by just put in front / behind the different layers in Affinity...
I will see that tomorrow!

EDITED: 18 Jan 2023 by PILOU

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 From:  Michael Gibson
10114.483 In reply to 10114.482 
Hi Pilou,

re:
> And I believe maybe resolve my little problem by just put in front / behind the different layers in Affinity...

Sorry, I'm not understanding - what is the problem?

- Michael
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
10114.484 In reply to 10114.483 
Now I have the different Layers but
Seems there is something with the export PDF
Only one face can have fill color but not sure the geometry is good exported :)


https://moiscript.weebly.com/uploads/3/9/3/8/3938813/hop.pdf
not the the same 3dm but very similar! :)
https://moiscript.weebly.com/uploads/3/9/3/8/3938813/hop.3dm

EDITED: 18 Jan 2023 by PILOU

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 From:  Michael Gibson
10114.485 In reply to 10114.484 
Hi Pilou,

re:
> Only one face can have fill color but not sure the geometry is good exported :)

Sorry I don't understand what you are trying to do.

Is the fill color something that you're trying to set in a different program? What program is it?

- Michael
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
10114.486 In reply to 10114.485 
I make that only in Affinity! :)
I want just colorized each face separately as shown here https://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=10114.476
I have well the 5 Layers but...curious...only the Top Cylinder can be filled and not completely !
(as shown on my previous animation ) https://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=10114.484
follow is just theorical schema not the same order and names as above...
(Calque = Layer) I will see that tomorrow evening!
See you soon...

EDITED: 18 Jan 2023 by PILOU

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 From:  Michael Gibson
10114.487 In reply to 10114.486 
Hi Pilou, in order to get a proper fill in Affinity the path needs to be one combined closed path.

If you select just the layer _faceCyan in your PDF, there are 4 separate unjoined paths that belong to that layer.

You will need to join those together before it will fill properly. If you just select the entire layer with open curves it won't get filled right, it's trying to fill each of the 4 pieces individually.

You can join the curves in Affinity Designer by selecting them all:



Go to the "Node" tool:



Choose the "Join curves" Action here:



Now with it being one single path instead of 4 separate sub paths you can fill it like you wanted:



When the 4 pieces are separate then applying a fill goes like this instead:


- Michael

EDITED: 18 Jan 2023 by MICHAEL GIBSON


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 From:  pressure (PEER)
10114.488 In reply to 10114.479 
Thanks for the tip Michael. I've corrected my post above.

- Peer
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
10114.489 In reply to 10114.487 
Ok better than nothing!

I will continue to explore if there is no trick inside Moi for have direct closed curves! :)

Another thing is maybe a sort of Macro inside Affinity for close all curves inside all Layers!
Because when you have hundred of Layers that is some painful!
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
10114.490 
I have gone to the Affinity forum with example PDF above!
ABout the cylnder remark it's that i have seen!

>>Designer doesn't support Macros. Only Photo has them.

>>Your example file contains some curves, which reflect roughly edges which mark the surface of a 3D object.

I interpret your request that you want to get a closed curve for every visible surface area, build by using the edges and combining them to a closed curve (one edge is needed multiple times, mainly 1 or 2 times, for 2 edges who share the edge).

The grouping of layers (used for clipping) should be ignored for combining surface edges (you need edges from multiple layers groups for one surface)

Just „closing the curves“ (using the current „close curve“ function would not deliver any useful results.

the curves like the bottom from cylinder needs to be trimmed to cut of unused parts
This tasks needs some 3D functionality which is not at all available in designer.
The edges can be ambiguous (overlapping), and the layer sequence gives no actual „depth“ information.
Just to „manage expectations“ i personally rate this functionality very unlikely to come anytime soon. It is not a simple macro recording - which Walt already pointed out is not available at all in Designer - and record otherwise existing functionality.

otherwise, it would be a nice feature to get, of course.
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
10114.491 
So maybe a Projected inside MOI can do something...before exporting PDF...
---
Pilou
Is beautiful that please without concept!
My Moi French Site My Gallery My MagicaVoxel Gallery
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