Full Version: V5 beta May-22-2022 available now

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Hi Frederick,

re:
> How do you add a new object to an existing group?

Select the object and then click on the group name in the "Objects" section of the scene browser.


> How do you remove an existing object from a group

Select the existing object and use either Ungroup to move it out of its current group and up one level in the hierarchy, or use UngroupAll to completely remove it from the entire hierarchy in one shot.


> or move it to another group?

Select the object and then click on the group name in the "Objects" section of the scene browser.

- Michael

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Hi Frederick,

re:
> Controlled perhaps by two different user selectable keys (including the usual alt/ctrl/shift bits)?

There are not 2 keys available out of alt/ctrl/shift - ctrl + click is used for deselection, shift + click is used for multiple selection if "Multiple selection: Only with Shift key" is set.

Alt is a possibility but Alt+drag is used for view navigation and trying to use it also for selection will degrade the view navigation a little because it will have to wait to see if you're doing a drag or a click before it can do anything.

Maybe I can make double click drill all the way down to the bottom. I don't like double click all that much though I have tried to avoid using it but that means it is open currently.

Maybe another thing that could happen with the double click method is that after you've done it on one item in a group the group could go into a type of "full drill down mode" and any further single clicks on anything within the same hierarchy would select objects directly and not any intermediate groups. When selection is cleared off of everything in the group "full drill down mode" could turn off.

- Michael

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Hi Michael,

When I posted "keys" I was thinking of the normal keys (a to z, etc) plus the possible alt/ctrl/shift modifiers - just like you already use for "short cut keys".

I tend to agree about double-clicking. It adds a "timing element" which is not real user friendly.

Frederick

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Hi Michael,

Well, that works just fine.

Here I was looking around for ADD and MOVE commands.

Frederick

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Hi Frederick,

re:
> When I posted "keys" I was thinking of the normal keys (a to z, etc) plus the possible
> alt/ctrl/shift modifiers - just like you already use for "short cut keys".

That would unfortunately be completely undiscoverable because it is very uncommon for a program to use a "normal key" being held down to modify mouse clicking behavior.


> I tend to agree about double-clicking. It adds a "timing element" which is not real user friendly.

It is a good fit for this particular thing though because 2 individual clicks will already drill in.

- Michael

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Hi Michael,

I wasn't thinking of holding a key down, just using a key in the same way that "short cut" keys are used, to invoke an action.

Only this one key would toggle between if "group drill down" was in effect or if "just select the object clicked on" was in effect.

If toggle keys are "bad" then use two to select would "mode" is in effect.

Sorry for being unclear in what I was trying to convey.

Frederick

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Hi Frederick,

re:
> Only this one key would toggle between if "group drill down" was in effect or if "just
> select the object clicked on" was in effect.

That still has the problem of being virtually undiscoverable. There is no way that someone just experimenting with clicking and holding down modifiers would know to press the key to toggle the mode.

Maybe Ctrl+click could work for this after all. Currently Ctrl+click on a selected object will prevent it from drilling in and instead deselect the clicked object.

But Ctrl+click specifically on an unselected object doesn't do anything different than not having Ctrl down.

i'll give it a try and see if that could work ok.

- Michael

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Hi Michael,

In the Options there are settings which affect behavior, such as snapping. They are "discoverable" in the sense you can click Options and look around.

I would be perfectly happy being able to enable/disable the group drill down behavior there. That would seem to be consistent with the spirit of things.

I'm pretty sure that being able to select a group via the list of objects would work out fine for me.

Thanks.

Frederick

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Hi Frederick, it's kind of weird option you are asking for - basically to make groups not select as a group.

Selecting together as one unit is the primary purpose for having groups.

If you don't want it to behave like a group then why do you want to make it a group in the first place? Maybe some other organization method would be better suited for what you are trying to do rather than a "group that does not behave like a group".

Are there any other programs you use that have an option like this for what they call "groups" ?

- Michael

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Hi Michael.

Think of the files on a computer. Lots of different folder, full of different files. Folks usually use folders to organize and keep related files together.

But selecting the folder doesn't select all the files in the folder.

When editing a file you generally are going to work on one file at a time.

But there are times when you are going to do something with all the files, such as doing a backup, or zipping them up.

That's how I see groups working in MOI.

Most of the time I will be creating/editing individual objects.

But when it comes, say, to exporting them, being able to export the group makes things easier.

Another use of a group is when I am going to create a new version of an assembly. Each part (object) in the new assembly (group) is going to have the name as in the existing assembly (group). But the new assembly (group) will have a different name - something with a version number in it.

If I can copy-and-paste the existing group as a new group I get all the existing objects already in the new group, ready to be edited as needed to create the new version of the assembly.

I envision a system where the MOI file represents a project which has a name.

Each MOI group represents a set of parts (MOI objects) that make up an assembly. Each assembly (group) has a name, each part (object) has a name.

I then can select the topmost group (the collection of all assemblies) and do an export. Each file ends up named something like "projectname-assemblyname-partname".

Right now I have to do all that one file at a time and the file names need to be edited to reflect what project and assembly they are for.

Hope the helps to understand how I see things and how I work.

Frederick

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Hi Frederick, thanks for explaining. I want to have an additional organization method called "folders" that I think will more closely map to what you want to do than groups.

- Michael

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Could we use ctrl+alt+click for group drilldown? It's a little bit more complicated, but if it's a less-common action, a combo like that seems fine. Assuming we're already set up for using multiple modifiers on a click, this should be easy, and then folks can customize the keybindings if they care.

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Hi Cuboctahedron,

re:
> Could we use ctrl+alt+click for group drilldown?

For the next v5 beta, ctrl+click on an unselected item in a group will do a full drill-in to target just that object and not any intermediate groups.

- Michael

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Hi Michael,
Just a note to let you know that two colors in my MoI4 went grey again, all by themselves.
Background color went to 77,77,77, which is the same as my MoI5beta background color.

Locked Alt color went to 171, 171, 171, (I think from MoI5beta(?), as far as I can tell).

I did not do much in MoI4. Did make an Object Library (Max's customUI) trombone bell.

- Brian

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Hi Brian, re: color changes - what do you have set in MoI v5 here under Options > View > Colors, are they set to "From theme" or "Custom"? :


If you have it set to "Custom", then that's basically like "v4 compatibility mode" where those colors will come from a global setting just like they did in v4 and they will use the same setting in moi.ini as v4 to store the custom colors.

So if you set the color mode to "Custom" in v5 that is normal that any change to the color value will show up in v4 as well.

It is possible to make v5 have separate settings from v5 instead of using the same setting. The main way to do that is to set the color to "From theme" instead of "Custom" and then edit the color in a customized theme instead of as a v4-like global value. Any colors set in the theme will not be seen by v4.

Or if you are disturbed by having settings shared between v4 and v5 it is possible to set it up so that each one will use a separate moi.ini file. You can do that by modifying the shortcut you use to launch MoI.exe and giving it a command line parameter with a path to a moi.ini file to use. If there are any spaces in the path put double quotes " " around the path.

- Michael

Image Attachments:
OptionsViewColors.png 

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Hi Michael,

The setting that is being used is "From Theme".

I'll delete the April 10 beta, and leave the May 22 beta, in case that is the cause.

Not sure what permutation causes the color change.
(reboot, power failure, MoI4 open/closed, MoI5beta open/closed, Windows 11?.

I'll call it just a very minor characteristic...:-)

- Brian

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Hi Brian, hmmm I was thinking that if you had it set to "Custom" then that would have explained it.

I'll dig around a little more to see if I can identify a bug in that area.

- Michael

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Thank you Michael.

To clarify, in MoI5MayBeta, I am using a theme BDark, which is the Dark theme, with Red, Blue, and Green axi.
(Do not want to waste your valuable time :-)

- Brian

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Hi Michael,

After a lot of trial and error, I was finally able to cause MoI5BetaMay, Dark Theme to change the default "light blue" background color of MoI4 to Dark background color.

Have MoI4 closed, with its default light blue background color.
Open MoI5 in Dark Theme. Load a .3dm object, and press Snapshot in customUI.
Close MoI5.
Open MoI4, which now has Dark background color.

(The opposite color change in MoI4 also occurs. If MoI4 has the Dark background color, and is closed, press Snapshot for an object, with MoI5 in default "light blue" background color, then close MoI5.
Open MoI4. It now has the light blue background color.

- Brian

I think that Snapshot is saving MoI5 background color, and restoring it, when MoI5 is closed, and is also transferring the MoI5 color to the closed MoI4... (or something like that...MoI5 mediated?)

There are about 6 permutations of how Snapshot takes the picture. See CustomUI post #1. I have not tested all of the permutations. Grid might be affected also?
I do not think that the resolution of the snapshot would have any relevance to the color change(s).

Per Max:
Snapshot
-------------
With this addon you can make a snapshot of last clicked viewport.
Resolution is fixed: 1600x1200
Left click - grid is visible
Right click - grid is hidden
Shift + click = resolution x 2
Ctrl + Shift + click = resolution x 3
Snapshots will be saved to "snapshots" directory.

- Brian

Snapshot in MoI4 does not seem to change background color of MoI5 (?)

https://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=6507.463

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Hi Brian, thanks for figuring it out. Yes the snapshot script adds some complexity to things since it was written before themes. So to support the snapshot scripts when the script sets the background color MoI will also automatically sets the mode to "Custom" and sets the color value used by "Custom" which is the same as v4.

Then when the snapshot script restores the old background color value, MoI also automatically sets the mode back to "From theme" if the color being set is the same as the current theme background color. But the v4 background color will get changed as a side effect.

I think an easy way to fix this would be to not write out the v4 color value (also used by v5 in "custom" mode) when Moi v5 exits if mode is "From theme".

Can you please post or e-mail to me (moi@moi3d.com) the snapshot script you have so I can double check to see what other properties might be affected as well.

Thanks, - Michael

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