"... Maybe they should only do that when only annotation objects are selected and no other object types?"

Michael - I think that's worth trying and see if it seems intuitive.

Probably the tools I use the most are the alignment tools - they save a lot of time. For example, I'm working on a machine fixture that has a lot of pieces that butt up against each other in all directions.

So yeah, if annotations are selected only, then allow them to have a boundary box. If annotations are selected along with another object(s), restrict the boundary box to the objects as if annotations were not selected (but allow the annotations to follow the object(s) when moved?).

Otherwise moves and alignments won't work. I can't think of a case where a user would want to operate on the entire boundary box that included annotations.

If the boundary box includes the annotations as it does now, future edits of the model will be difficult, because either the annotations get separated from the object, or precision alignment is sacrificed.

One workaround is to only add annotations when the model is complete, but personally, I've never made a complex model that stayed static for very long :)

Ed Ferguson

<< So for the purposes of making 2D drawings it's good for dimensions to be placed with some care and it's not great to try to make it really easy to stick anywhere in 3D space even though that would be fun for playing around with them.

I can understand that...and there are another play tools for play with that! :)

And if i want really 3D dimensions i can use the CPlan and the 3 views so not a big deal... ;)

A funny one : the measure tool has it's own 3D Gizmo (of course this amazing free Twinmotion) :)
Funny to see the automatic measure following different rotations of the Gizmo along the altitude's variation of surfaces!
...and the jump from volumes to volumes like a laser one!

Michael,

Thank you. This is looking very nice so far. It sounds like you will be working on getting the annotations to export. Will there be a way to set defaults so so you don't have to keep making changes in the dialog? That would be very helpful. Also, as Frenchy has mentioned, it would be very nice to be able to draw dims more directly in the 3D view.

Very nice. Anxiously awaiting the export capability.

Thanks again for this great tool.

Terry

Hi Terry, thanks for testing it! Yes I still have some work left to do for export to DXF and PDF/AI formats and I do have a plan on setting the defaults. I kind of needed another week or so to get some stuff other than the exports done but I had to release it now since the current beta expires in a couple of days. So there are a few more loose ends than I would have liked.

For drawing dims directly in the 3D view not on the drawing plane, I'm sorry that is not planned currently. The reason why is described here: http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=9526.24 . But you can draw them there now if you set the construction plane where you want them to go.

There will probably be some additional measurement tools implemented in future versions, dimensioning is not quite just a pure measurement tool by itself. They're kind of a communication tool that incorporates certain kinds of measurement in it.

- Michael

Hello Michael,

You got it, "lazy" is the right word for that Align with Dimension behavior.

As far as where to align and position the arrowhead and measurement information on the dimension line that decision can be as variable as the individual as the part being modeled. In that case I'd think manual flip/toggle makes sense so as not to add complexity.

Nice to hear curved leaders are a consideration for the future, it just broadens MoIs technical illustration appeal.

The last few drawings on this page give an example of dimensions stacked from a datum:

https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/mechanical-engineering/2-007-design-and-manufacturing-i-spring-2009/related-resources/drawing_and_sketching/

Could the existing Align tool be extended to not only effect position but also distribution? For example, select multiple horizontal dimensions, Align > Distribute would provide for spacing between dimension lines in the selected group. Also, selecting multiple leaders Align > Distribute > Left could effectively box in the dimension data. This way you're using an existing tool that is familiar to the user and not adding complexity by adding a screen. The user is confident that what they are seeing on the screen exports as they see it.

On another dimension note do you see any potential risk for confusion by allowing the user to fix scale options in two places?

Thanks.

Understood. Thanks again for your work on this.

Hi Ed,

re:
> So yeah, if annotations are selected only, then allow them to have a boundary box.
> If annotations are selected along with another object(s), restrict the boundary box to
> the objects as if annotations were not selected (but allow the annotations to follow
> the object(s) when moved?).

I'll give this a try for the next beta. It will enable some kind of odd scenarios like if you have both an annotation and a regular object both selected but they are separated by quite some distance it will be a little odd that the edit frame will seem to be ignored by the edit frame. It's also a little weird when the edit frame does not go around everything selected since it's presence has become kind of an additional selection cue as well.

But it's a pretty contrived scenario since there isn't too much use in having annotations just way off somewhere by themselves. Except possibly text.

So we'll see how it works out.

- Michael

Thanks a lot for the "barb" arrows Michael.



With variable dimension text size depending on zoom level how can I preview the actual relation of object, arrows and text of a future export to AI/PDF format? Is it possible to have an option that turns off this zoom behaviour and leaves the text in its real size independent of zoom level?

-Martin

Curiously this is impossible with the 4 views (if i have not forgotten something)

Only with the CPlan (and not so evident to call it at the good orientations without Helper lines! :)

Hi Pilou, so if you have a line and you want to know its length it isn't necessary to put in a dimension to find out. Just select the line and the length is displayed in the regular UI right here:



That works no matter where the line is and does not require any cplane manipulation or any tools at all, just select it and look over there.

- Michael

Of course but it's for direct schema documentation!
I have use it for very the good value of the arrow! ;)

Hi Martin,

re:
> Thanks a lot for the "barb" arrows Michael.

You're welcome! Those do have a nice type of minimalistic appeal.


> With variable dimension text size depending on zoom level how can I
> preview the actual relation of object, arrows and text of a future export
> to AI/PDF format?

Well, the thing is the text size is not variable, it's constant just constant in a different metric that you are used to. It's constant in its display size on your monitor.

So if you use a font of say Tahoma 16pt it shows at 16pt size all the time no matter where you happen to be viewing it from.

The same thing will apply to PDF/AI export (once it is implemented), it will be 16pt text in the PDF page and on your printed result.

The part that is good about this is that for labels you should get a consistent legible text size in your final result without messing with any kind of scale factors. You won't get gigantic text or tiny text if you don't happen to manage the scale factors properly.

The part that is not so good about this is if you care how text specifically relates to the model size, particularly if you have drawn in some lines to make a title block grid out of geometry and you want the text to fit between some model geometry. To handle this kind of situation I want to have an option to switch the text and arrowheads to be based on model units rather than screen display units. That probably won't happen until a future round of work after v4 though, for v4 I wanted to focus on constant display size since for simple drawings it should alleviate various kinds of scaling battles.


> Is it possible to have an option that turns off this zoom behaviour and leaves the text
> in its real size independent of zoom level?

Not currently but I do want to have an option for that in the future. Right now the system is built around constant display size and there isn't any concept yet of "model unit sized" text rather than "display sized" text.

- Michael

We can't "Separate" a linear Dim ? (in its different elements: lines, text, heads arrows...) for Flow it for example...

Hi Pilou,

> Of course but it's for direct schema documentation!
> I have use it for very the good value of the arrow! ;)

Yes, but for technical drawings there are conventions used to try and avoid misunderstandings and ambiguous situations. One of the rules is that a perspective view with a dimension line like you show there is not allowed.

I guess it kind of comes down to some of the fundamental differences between a "CAD" program that has a big focus on accuracy versus a "graphic design" program that is just focused on making images.

I like to incorporate elements from both of these worlds but sometimes they are in conflict with each other.

- Michael

Hi Pilou,

re:
> We can't "Separate" a linear Dim ? (in its different elements: lines, text, heads arrows...) for Flow it for example...

Sorry, no not currently. The main focus of these tools is on doing technical drawings.

- Michael

<no not currently
So for this we can use the Max one! ;)

Hi OSTexo,

re:
> You got it, "lazy" is the right word for that Align with Dimension behavior.

There seems to be maybe a couple different bugs in linear dimension transformations, I'm investigating it.


> In that case I'd think manual flip/toggle makes sense so as not to add complexity.

I'll give this a try. I also do intend to enable turning on edit points for a dimension and moving the text position wherever you want.


> Could the existing Align tool be extended to not only effect position but also distribution?
> For example, select multiple horizontal dimensions, Align > Distribute would provide for
> spacing between dimension lines in the selected group.

The part that's difficult about this is that would have Align > Distribute processing just the dimension line and not the entire object. I guess that could be possible but it wouldn't be consistent with how Align works currently which is that it works on the bounding box around the entire object.

It seems like it might be good to instead have a "Stacked" option in the dimension command that would handle making those.


> On another dimension note do you see any potential risk for confusion by
> allowing the user to fix scale options in two places?

Do you mean for the display precision like number of decimal points to display? The setting for that in Options > General > "Decimal display" controls the appearance of the UI environment like how numbers in an edit field are displayed. It would be problematic to try and re-use that for the dimension display as well because that would mean that the dimensions in a given file would be formatted differently on what a user had set for their UI preferences.

Thanks,
- Michael

Great work Michael.

Maybe I lost some details, but how I can copy from details , area or volume results to leader or text dims?

(Right click not working for me)

Thanks,

George

Hi George, if you click on the number for Length, Area, or Volume number it will get copied to the clipboard. Either left click or right click should do the same thing. It does not pop up a menu though since other things that would be on the menu like "Select All" or "Delete" don't really make sense there. It just gets copied with the click itself.

- Michael

There is no Calcul Mass * Volume ?