Hello Michael,

I know from Rhino a good feature where a small window opens once you hover over objects (lines, curves e.g.) to select the appropriate part you want to select. Such feature I miss in MOI. Often it is hard to select a shorter line which is covered by a longer line and only by coincidence it seems the shorter is highlighted for selection. The longer line gets the priority in that case. I know that you can start a selection field and draw the field as ling as you get the line highlighted that you want to select. But this method does not always work depending on the whole object sometimes obstructing the area where the line for selection lies in.

Do you have plans to implement such feature as it is in Rhino?

If I miss here something relevant that solves the issue anyway, please let me know.


Best regards,

Axel

I recently realized that the direction you create your selection box changes how objects are selected. One way selects only fully enclosed objects in the box and the other way selects objects that intersect the box. This has helped me immensely with selecting buried objects. Also, I believe you can hold down a key to ignore certain types of objects while selecting, but I'm not familiar with this feature and might have misunderstood something I read in these forums. I don't mean to interrupt a question to Michael directly, but I hope this helps you.

Hello Cody,

thanks for your reply. I tested that with a line I draw from one direction and also then from the other. And indeed it works as you described. But it is not very handy in my opinion. Maybe I need to do that from now on and become use to that procedure. Regarding the additional key command I don't know what it might be.

And maybe later Michael can give further advise and if he could implement such feature of a direct selection window. MOI UI is very clean and I like that the working area is not messed with a lot of pop-ups. But any kind of an easier selection would be better.

Cheers,
Axel

With MoI, I've learned to model in color groups so I can hide and show components. I use certain colors as just guide lines, for example. I occasionally name objects together (works just like grouping) that I know I might want to select in a single click later on and do this before I model more around it. Also, hiding all solids temporarily to see just the curves, etc. However, I model jewellery and I imagine it's not nearly as complex as other modelling endeavors.

With your comment about selecting a short line on top of a long line, that's where I'd draw a selection box around the short line that highlights everything inside the box only. However, I believe I've noticed a pattern with how things are "layered" in that things that are created or pasted last have priority when the cursor highlights them. Try this, take two lines that overlap (but one being shorter and "inside" the other). If you select the longer line, then cut and paste it, it will receive all the mouse highlighting. Draw a box around the shorter line (using the method I described) and cut and paste just that shorter line. You'll notice that the mouse cursor highlights the shorter line as priority.

So what I've done (while I'm modelling) is with any short overlapping lines, I select them, cut and paste them as I go. This way, I can always quickly select the shorter line with ease. I also make sure they are a different color so I can see them with ease. The last object created or pasted also receives the priority of the pixels being draw on the screen, I think.

Ideally though, it would be nice to hold down a key while clicking, and then a list of all objects that are directly under the cursor appears (they'd all just say "curve", "curve", "solid", etc.) and as you mouseover each listed item, it highlights them in the live 3D view so you know which curve is the curve you want.

I hope that helps you make better headway with your modelling, Axel.

-- Cody

Hi Axel,

re:
> Do you have plans to implement such feature as it is in Rhino?

Not currently - it was actually one of the earliest design goals for MoI to avoid doing the same as Rhino since the Rhino way pops that up so often and it's an "in your face" type of interruption.

So instead of doing something after you click, MoI is set up to do pretty much the opposite and give you feedback before you click by the "halo" type highlighting.

But it could be possible to add it in the future though as an optional thing like maybe using Alt could do that.

The main way to deal with things getting in your way though is to hide the thing that's interfering so you can more clearly see what you want to target. Or as mentioned above strategic use of window selection (starting from left going towards the right) that only targets things completely contained in the window can work too.

If you have a situation where none of that helps, if you could please post the .3dm model file for it that would help me to either give advice or figure out what new tool would be good for that.

- Michael

Hi Cody,

re:
> Also, I believe you can hold down a key to ignore certain types of objects while selecting, but I'm
> not familiar with this feature and might have misunderstood something I read in these forums.

There is a selection filter that you can activate from the Scene Browser by holding down Ctrl when you click on the selection dot part of a scene browser item. Once you do that a filter icon will show there any any further selection actions will only target that category of objects.

You can also activate multiple filters like one on Styles > Red and another one on Types > Curves and then you'll only target red curves with your next selections.

When you're done using the filter you can use Ctrl+click again on it or push Esc to clear selection filters. Don't forget this because if you accidentally leave it on you'll wonder why selection on other things isn't working anymore.

- Michael

Hi Michael and Cody,

thanks for your input and advises how to easier select obstructed lines. The idea with colour group is great, I think I should also do that to have a better structure in my models.

The issue I have when I select with a selection window from left to right is that I cannot select if a surface is below. It is rather difficult then to select by moving the cursor and catching the lines I want to select. I would then have to ctrl+x the surface and once selected the area, I ctrl+v the surface back to its position. In general it is not a big issue, just something which could be considered as an improvement later, for example as Cody wrote to have an optional pop-up window only when pressing an additional key. But indeed Michael, MOI I found from the beginning very clean due to the not fully overloaded screen: here a docked window, there a pop-up and another undocked window I always need to shift from one side to another :)

Man, that dark grey UI is really great :-))


Cheers,

Axel

Thanks for the compliment, Axel. The theme now has a new add-on to support Max Smirnov's Custom UI better. In case you use that mod, that is.

I'd rather have MoI's clean interface and work flow than a something like *cough* Blender *cough*. You'll figure out a work flow that suites your needs and it will become second nature after a short while. Once you've created a part, that might even use multiple colours, select it all carefully and give it a useful name. Then you'll always be able to hide and show it on a whim. Also, I typically model interior surfaces one colour and the exterior another. Then I can hide and show the shell and work on the interior stuff more easily and vice versa. I'll even duplicate full shapes before I do any boolean operations, just in case if I need to change the master shape after the fact and redo the boolean again. I put those "master" objects on their own colour so I can easily retrieve them, but keep them hidden while I work. Food for thought.

----------

Thanks for the clarification on how to use filters, Michael. A powerful hidden feature. I like those. It's like when you've mastered the surface features of MoI, you begin to ask the right questions and, sure enough, you've got a solution already to go on these forums. By keeping these more powerful features hidden, you keep your software more accessible. It's a necessary evil and I love it.

There's a game design book called the A Theory of Fun. It postulates that fun comes from learning. When you play a game, it has to teach you something or reveal some new understanding in order to continue to be fun. I feel the same way about MoI. You can immediately start making stuff and mucking around, but there's more to it than meets the eye. When I learn how to do something else with MoI, it's typically really simple and then my learning brain parts are tickled and I find myself having legitimate fun while working with your software. Those Aha! moments are pure gold. I keep reading in these forums that people are having fun using your software... and I don't think it's quite as figurative as one might think.

-- Cody

"""""The issue I have when I select with a selection window from left to right is that I cannot select if a surface is below. """"""

There is a key modifier that stops the "pick selection" that creates this interference.

I think it is "ctrl+shift" (not at my computer)

Then, only window selection works....

This can help in the situation you are describing...

Thanks, BurrMan!

That was what I was trying to ask about earlier, but my memory was too vague to convey it properly. But now I know about custom filters AND turning off the auto-picking when mouse clicking.

And yes, it's CTRL + SHIFT.

-- Cody

Hi Cody,

> Thanks for the clarification on how to use filters, Michael. A powerful hidden feature. I like those. It's
> like when you've mastered the surface features of MoI, you begin to ask the right questions and, sure
> enough, you've got a solution already to go on these forums. By keeping these more powerful features
> hidden, you keep your software more accessible. It's a necessary evil and I love it.

Thanks Cody! And yup this is the strategy for MoI. There are some good parts and bad parts to it. One of the good parts is it makes for a lower learning curve for beginners and helps a beginner move to an advanced user more gradually.

One of the bad parts is that often advanced users will take a quick look at it and decide "it's a toy".

Something that makes it work well is some stuff that benefits beginning users like having a streamlined workflow and less steps also benefits advanced users who value speed.

- Michael

Thank you!! That is another trick I use from now on and I am glad that I learned this today :-) I think with this and the other methods you gents brought up here in this thread I am fine regarding selecting hidden lines :)

Cheers,

Axel