Hi,

I have spent a month on Zbrush and I have to say I find it very un-ituiative compared to sketchup. I want to make rather simple shapes and use alphas to make 3D displacemnts, shapes, extrude and add real 3d textures then 3d print . But just making basic shapes seems very hard in ZB. I imagine that sculptuing is not so hard as its more freeform, but I have not much need for making figures - I am an Interior Designer so my items all need to be more precise.

I have lost so much time in Zbrush. Do you think MoI will be easier and do what I need without tearing my hair our over the simplist things Like Zbrush make me do.

Zymon

Hi Zymon,
I am an architectural designer and I use MoI to do all my modeling. I find it more intuitive than SketchUp. I will find MoI a lot more useful with Michael adds dimensions and linetypes. There are scripts that can be added for basic dimensions, though. I'm sure that built in dimensions will be added in ver 4.
MoI is very easy to learn but has a wealth of internal options so that even though I have used it for years I keep learning new things almost every day.
This is the best forum I have ever encountered with lots of experts willing to help with any question.
Try MoI for a week or two and you'll want to use it forever.
cheers,
eric

Hi Zymon, well MoI and ZBrush are based on very different technologies and have very different strengths and weaknesses.

MoI is a type of CAD program that can be used to design precise parts primarily generated from 2D curves.

ZBrush is a type of DCC program that can be used to sculpt complex organic shapes.

It won't work very well to try making complex organic shapes in MoI nor will it work well to do precise machined parts in ZBrush.

From what you are describing it sounds like MoI would be a better fit for you, you should get the trial version and test it.

If you could post some examples of the type of thing you're trying to build that would probably help to give more precise advice, there are some styles of objects that are in a kind of gray area not entirely organic nor entirely mechanical.

- Michael

ZBrush can makes some very precise things (not very subdivided for hard surface or low poly object at start) but you must use the "ZModeler" who is not very friendly like SketchUP or Moi!

Ask a certain training! ;)

73 videos about only the ZModeler so effectively not so intuitive! :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4JvEV4KuSw&list=PLMjnnUF3eJFeGI5qFVeYd7ffnBhvnG76B



ZBrush was at the start a 2.5D prog and be transformed step by
step in a a 3D modeler so have not a traditional structure!

For speed things you have a free one who is more intuitive than ZBrush : Hexagon 2.5
https://www.daz3d.com/hexagon-2-5-download-version

Hello Zymon.

For what I've learned so far from many professional 3D artists, if you want to use ZBrush seriously then you have to expect to buy
some of the many professional courses/classes that you can find around the web.

The 795 USD that you need to spend for the bare license of ZBrush are not enough.
This is the hard truth :)

Ciao!

The ZClassRoom is free! ;)
http://pixologic.com/zclassroom/

And ZBrush Core is sufficient for 3D Print ! ;) ( 150 $)
But sure we can't say that is a very easy prog! :)

Hi Pilou,

> ZBrush can makes some very precise things

No, not at all in the same sense as a NURBS modeler does. For example in a NURBS modeler if you do a boolean cut with a circle it's guaranteed that the shape of the hole is circular, either exactly a circle if it's on a plane or in the worst case fit to a specific tolerance level (in MoI 0.001 units).

In a polygon modeler like ZBrush there is just not any similar focus on precise geometry like that.

Now if you're only generating rendered images from the models you could certainly say that it's ok to have unknown precision as long as it looks good. But for manufacturing it's a very different case.

- Michael

Hi Zymon,

I spoke to you over in ZBrushCentral (I'm chrisd over there).

I think the difficulty that you might find in addition to learning the different applications is that some of the things you wish to do are not easily combined into a single process or application.

ZBrush has no absolute units system, so its really not possible to make things fit into a real environment, or build something using actual measurements. However, it excels at real 3d texturing which is what you described as an important feature. There are other apps that can do this too, although ZBrush one of the best. Blender is also fairly good at this, and given that its open source, its the best deal around.

Using Moi or another CAD type application to do the precise building as a nurbs model means exporting to a mesh (triangulated) format to create the 3d texturing that will 3d print. There is no good way to combine nurbs modeling and 3d texturing in a single application. Nurbs does not represent high frequency detail well (such as what occurs in nature) and typically results in a "melted" effect or softening of the detail. There are applications that can use displacement with nurbs, or convert a mesh to a nurbs object. However, If the desire is to create a crisp or realistic 3d texture, then nurbs will be unsuitable.

Hi Pilou!

You can ask everywhere.
If you want to be a serious and professional user of ZBrush or other high-end packages the "free" courses are not enough.
It doesn't matter how smart are you.

Software with steep learning curve need to be taught by other professional power users,
folks that use it every day with real use cases.

Ciao!

Sure but you can find some free tuts by Pro :)
for example here 532 tuts...
https://www.3dtotal.com/tutorials/ZBrush/?

Hi Zymon,

I'm an avid user of both MoI and ZBrush, and I can say from experience that they can perfectly complement each other.

MoI is a very clear, user-friendly and intuitive tool to create precise and perfectly curved models. The complex nature of NURBS math allows for perfectly smooth surfaces, particularly hard-surface models, with the extra advantage of not having to think about polygonal topology.

MoI is fantastic for curve-based modeling, which is a weakness of ZBrush. For example, I use MoI often to trace paper sketches using curves as a basis for my models.

MoI is also very suitable for working in accurate dimensions, unlike ZBrush, as someone else already mentioned in this discussion.

The biggest strength of ZBrush lies in organic sculpting, high-polygon detailing, and in unifying and smoothing complex branching models without the filleting limitations you sometimes encounter in NURBS-based tools.

Maybe this analogy might be applicable: ZBrush is like a 3D Photoshop, while MoI is like a 3D Illustrator. One can't be replaced by the other, and they perfectly complement each other with their own features.

If you've got any questions regarding this matter, please feel free to ask. Good luck.

Dear All,

The attached are the sort of images I wanted to turn into patterns and 3d textures, that I can intergrate into a 3d prnted surface or CNC milled thing. Maybe take the different bits and compile into a new composition similar to a bas-refief. (Please ignore the flatter plainer images)

I have other ideas but this seemed an easier first step.

I will add another image soon

Thanks for all your help so far BTW.

Regards,

Hi,

For sculptuing I was looking at carving out shapes in a lofted form ( like a crown molding or a cornice or skirting).

The attached was my first thought, but tell me if this is very advanced as I really dont want to be stuck with a task that is way too hard for a jobbing sketchup type od guy like me. I was hoping I could have a form that I could chip away at, adding and subtracting forms but the final 3D print needs to be sharp.

Regards,

Simon

Its me again.

I would love to be able to make a displacemnt map of the items in the attached image, then use these geometry to layer the different patterns together into a flat compostion - sort of like a base refief.

Sorry to send 3 emails of examples.

Thanks for the very informative discusions so far!!

Regards,

Hi Zymon, thanks for posting some examples! Well it seems that you have a very different idea of what's a "simple" model than I do since I'd consider almost everything you posted to be complex and highly detailed. MoI won't be very good at making things with high frequency bumps in it like it looks like you need.

Probably ZBrush is the better tool for you although one thing you may want to explore is using MoI and ZBrush in combination with each other, building your base forms with all smooth surfaces in MoI and then bringing them into ZBrush to add detailing.

- Michael

A photogrammetry application like Photoscan would work ... need lots of pictures with the right conditions to build a good model. Then ZBrush or similar app could be used to create the displacement maps.

This type of modeling should be done according to my opinion with the subdivision surfaces, with moi you can also do some of these well, but with Z-brush you have to be an expert.

Some example made with software like Blender 3D

https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/decoration

https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/architectural/decoration/architectural-ornament-vol-04

Hi Zymon,

I second Michael's suggestion: MoI is great for establishing clean and sharp base models, and ZBrush is great for automatic retopology and adding intricate details, using alpha stamping.

It's true that the ZBrush interface is an odd beast, and takes patience and studying to get used to, but once you know what the tools do and where to find them, it really makes sense. Two tips:

1: Watch the many free ZBrush video tutorials at http://pixologic.com/zclassroom/ and YouTube, to get past the initial steep learning curve.

2: Start creating your own custom ZBrush UI as soon as you get the hang of the software, because the default UI doesn't contain many tools. You can search Google (Images) for custom ZBrush UI inspiration.

Regards,

— Metin

———————

visualization • pixel / voxel art • illustration • animation • 3D (print) design — https://metinseven.com

One of the last ZBC Top raw ;)

Thanks for your help. I thought it would be a matter of using a displacment map to make the decorative parts - thats propably my inexperience. But I think you are all right. Make the object in MOI (what about sketchup?) then use zbrush to add texture.

Its rather expensive though, to say that I will not be using all the freeform modelling functions. I wounder if the reduced version would do enough for my uses.

Simon