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 From:  Cemortan_Tudor
8665.1 
Hi, my focus here is to know much more about possibilities of moi and how farther i can go, how much i can setup it for my control ! mostly focusing on hotkeys and playing with keyboard like a PS joystick ! a lot of stuff is taken from software that i have experience !

1.? make surface from a close path - i don't find a method that can make surface from a close path, not planar, lets say circular project on a sphere !
2.? can i separate close path without cutting part of it ?
- are any overlapping representation of points ?
3.? align on surface from orto views - is it possible ?
- cplane applied ?
4.? rotate on 3d view - found it's mostly impossible to rotate any object from 3d view, have to cplane, and adjust afterwards from ortos
! zbursh the same rotation axis -> for reference
5.? align/snap second point for rotation in 3d view surface/slide on edge,point
! custom aling to camera view
6.? momentarily turn off snapping for object snap/straight snap same as alt do for
7.? add single point - couldn't find the script for it - wanna use it for snapping lines to it, or others spapping options, found it somewhere, can't find it now
8.? visual effect of edges
- smaller than 1, i've tried to modify from moi.ini, no results ! other posibilites ? if i have tons of detail to make it thinner !
- & another option will be to clip some closests edges if too much detail,
9.? realtime outline diffrent color selected open surfaces - xsi have such function, i think other software have it too
- can be for surfaces
- for opened curves
- for corner points // if 3 points are closed enough to make an impression that there's a corner point
10.? defaul bounty box move/rotate -> without needs to make more clicks
11.? local move/rotate/scale
- oriented bounty box of extremes
12.? scale 2d- zbrush like, in moi can be different
move tool either scale tool -> holding "a button" from 1'st point to second snap (ps: in zbrush is move tool)
13.? axis - intuitive axes from other packages
14.? anchor point - default move location
15.? paste small objects with auto-align surface - same as from library !
- is it possible to copy(to clipboard) an object and to paste it with alignment to surface (bounding box) ? i've tried to make my own script for that, not enought programming experience
16.? 3 edges to close surface
*** the way i'm doing know is selecting 2 -> loft, others 2 - network, and last one network ! lots of operations !
17.? move along perpendicular line
- ways to toggle just perpendicular line and back
18.? cplane accord selected - same as local - xy from bounding box
19.? lasso points - I've found only for edges, creating extra edge - lasso //bla bla extensions - 8 hotkeys for it - crazy !
20.? 3 points rotate - select 1'st 2 align points, select last 2 align points & voila ! // there's are holding button lines creating, i haven't figure it out how to work with them

21.? option hotkey for chamfer/fillet/others - well if they are ! the idea is to have an active hotkey 1 slot(prefferably costumizable) for each tool
// lets say option key for extend, cap ends highlighted - when pressed it's switching between modes
// loft - option key for loft style - switching with arrow keys up down or multiple pressing optional key
// loft - switching between loft style/profile - TAB, or switch to next option menu - TAB
// can be used for curve drawing for switch corner/arc/freeform
22.? extrude tapped/dir - from keyboard, or other functions from keyboard, how to setup them
23.? numpad hotkeys - how to setup them
24.? holding 2 buttons hotkeys - c4d like, holding 1 button, pressing second for a function without restrictions just to alt/ctrl/shift
25.? drawing curves in 3d view
26.? scale 2d local - actually flattering selected with 2 point for axis
27.? reset views 20% farther
28.? custom views - not only 3 orto-3d,1 orto-3d or othe options
29.? auto-join drawing curves(snapping options)
30.? add point on edge surface
* for fast build ups

31.? are any options for sliders/buttons on 3d viewport
32.? can bottom buttons from all views be removed (area/zoom/pan/reset)
33.? camera doll ! 3d/orto
34.? alternatives ways of shell - where u drop moi files to shell objects, import back ?
* If doing in moi -> any tips what should avoid in moi to have a good shell ?
35.? freezing sweep - I've noticed that sweep have a live function, can i freeze it?
36.? matcap - is it possible to grab from zbrush? or to use other materials, to do so, what should it take look for
37.? copy/paste without options, bounding box
//i'm doing from hotkeys: copy/paste & it appears a bounting box
38.? overlap hide - i'm a xsi user, and there's a grouping option that can overlap the current state of the object ! what for overlapping !
* lets say i have a complex model, after blocking i wanna start working on details, split model, and hide others, overlap others as Hide, while "Unhide All" objets overlap wont allow me to unhide the rest ! therefore i can work just on part that i want without needs to copy-paste to second moi window the model/object itself !
39.? undo camera - i've found the script that records the camera, BUT common and most used one for backtracking camera for several moves !
40.? iso curve modes change from keyboard

41.? redraw closed curve for extrude capping - as far not the curves can be extruded in order to have cap
** i'm doing those manually, haven't found solution or understand why it's happening !
42.? convert faces to outline edges
43.? locked objects to have other color style
44.? view flipped surfaces !
sometimes cant unify, joint unless i test flipping, any view option ?
45.? options to records moves - mostly like actions from Photoshop or Mel from Maya
// example will be 3 edges to close surface mentioned above
46.? ways to test our scripts - I've found 2 ways
* hotkey assign all the script - might be difficult to do cut every time all new lines
* from a file - if it's possible to refresh launched scripts without need to relaunch moi !
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 From:  Michael Gibson
8665.2 In reply to 8665.1 
Hi Cemortan, wow that's a lot of questions! I'm not sure that I understand them all but I'll try to give you some answers.

> 1.? make surface from a close path - i don't find a method that can make surface from a close path,
> not planar, lets say circular project on a sphere !

For a circle projected on a sphere you would use it to trim the sphere giving you the surface. And actually projection is built into the Trim command so you would probably skip the projection and just trim the sphere directly with the original circle as the cutting object.

> 2.? can i separate close path without cutting part of it ?

If the closed path is made up of multiple sub-segments you can use Edit > Separate to break it into individual segment pieces, otherwise cutting it with the Edit > Trim command is how you'd break it.

> - are any overlapping representation of points ?

Sorry I don't understand this one.


> 3.? align on surface from orto views - is it possible ?
> - cplane applied ?

Do you mean you want to relocate an object from an ortho view to be aligned to a curved surface normal? The Transform > Orient command can do that job, see here: http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=3977.2


> 4.? rotate on 3d view - found it's mostly impossible to rotate any object from 3d view, have
> to cplane, and adjust afterwards from ortos
> ! zbursh the same rotation axis -> for reference

MoI is a CAD program and isn't as focused on rotating stuff just by an eyeballed amount in the 3D view - in the ortho view you can use the edit frame rotation grip to quickly rotate an object. In the 3D view if you want to rotate around a particular line you can use the Transform > Rotate > Axis command, which lets you pick 2 points for a specific rotation axis line.


> 5.? align/snap second point for rotation in 3d view surface/slide on edge,point
> ! custom aling to camera view

Sorry I think I'd need to see what you're trying to do for this one.


> 6.? momentarily turn off snapping for object snap/straight snap same as alt do for

You can hold down Alt to temporarily turn off object snap or straight snap. Move the mouse around while Alt is still held down to move it freely without snapping.


> 7.? add single point - couldn't find the script for it - wanna use it for snapping lines to it, or others
> spapping options, found it somewhere, can't find it now

It's under Draw curve > More > Point.


> 8.? visual effect of edges
> - smaller than 1, i've tried to modify from moi.ini, no results ! other posibilites ? if i have tons of detail to make it thinner !
> - & another option will be to clip some closests edges if too much detail,

You can't go smaller than 1 pixel but there is an option you can set in moi.ini to make the antialiasing to be tighter, giving a slimmer appearance, see here:
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=5961.2


> 9.? realtime outline diffrent color selected open surfaces - xsi have such function, i think other software have it too
> - can be for surfaces
> - for opened curves
> - for corner points // if 3 points are closed enough to make an impression that there's a corner point

Sorry no there's no function for that currently - in general I've tried to avoid putting too many special indicator colors on the screen because it can often be confusing.


> 10.? defaul bounty box move/rotate -> without needs to make more clicks
> 11.? local move/rotate/scale
> - oriented bounty box of extremes

The focus for this in MoI is on using the 2D edit frame:
http://moi3d.com/3.0/docs/moi_command_reference11.htm#editframe


> 12.? scale 2d- zbrush like, in moi can be different
> move tool either scale tool -> holding "a button" from 1'st point to second snap (ps: in zbrush is move tool)

There is a command for doing 2D scaling under Transform > Scale > Scale2D . You can also do it by holding down the Shift key while you are dragging a corner of the 2D edit frame.


> 13.? axis - intuitive axes from other packages

The focus in MoI is more on primarily using 2D curves to define most of what you're doing, it's not focused on manipulating point cages in 3D space like a polygon modeler is and so Moi has a 2D manipulator and not a 3D manipulator currently.


>14.? anchor point - default move location

There isn't a concept in MoI of a default anchor point, that's also something that is more often done in an animation program rather than a CAD program.


> 15.? paste small objects with auto-align surface - same as from library !
> - is it possible to copy(to clipboard) an object and to paste it with alignment
> to surface (bounding box) ? i've tried to make my own script for that, not enought programming experience

You might try the "PastePart" and "CopyWithOrigin" commands:
http://moi3d.com/3.0/docs/moi_command_reference4.htm#pastepart
http://moi3d.com/3.0/docs/moi_command_reference4.htm#copyclipboardwithorigin

> 16.? 3 edges to close surface
> *** the way i'm doing know is selecting 2 -> loft, others 2 - network, and last one network ! lots of operations !

It depends on what your 3 edges look like, if they are all flat then use Construct > Planar for example. I'd need to see your curves to give you advice on what to use for your particular case.


> 17.? move along perpendicular line
> - ways to toggle just perpendicular line and back

You generally use Straight snap to move along a perpendicular line, you can also drag out a construction line as well.


> 18.? cplane accord selected - same as local - xy from bounding box

Sorry I don't understand this one.


> 19.? lasso points - I've found only for edges, creating extra edge -
> lasso //bla bla extensions - 8 hotkeys for it - crazy !

There isn't currently any lasso points method, you can window select points. But if you're using a lot of points it might be a sign that you're trying to model things in MoI using strategies you've used in a polygon modeler. In a NURBS modeler like MoI you should be doing more stuff with 2D curves rather than trying to move points around in 3D a lot.


> 20.? 3 points rotate - select 1'st 2 align points, select last 2 align points & voila ! // there's
> are holding button lines creating, i haven't figure it out how to work with them

Sounds like you want the Transform > Rotate > Rotate Axis command, it lets you pick 2 points to define the rotation axis, then you can either type in an angle value or pick 2 more points to define the angle.


> 21.? option hotkey for chamfer/fillet/others - well if they are ! the idea is to have an active hotkey 1 slot(prefferably costumizable) for each tool
> // lets say option key for extend, cap ends highlighted - when pressed it's
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 From:  Cemortan_Tudor
8665.3 In reply to 8665.2 
> 1.? make surface from a close path - i don't find a method that can make surface from a close path,
> not planar, lets say circular project on a sphere !

For a circle projected on a sphere you would use it to trim the sphere giving you the surface. And actually projection is built into the Trim command so you would probably skip the projection and just trim the sphere directly with the original circle as the cutting object.

*** atached 1.close_closed_surface
top one trimmed, both sided trimmed
bottom, projected - extruded - no cap !

> 2. skip

> 3.? align on surface from orto views - is it possible ?
> - cplane applied ?

Do you mean you want to relocate an object from an ortho view to be aligned to a curved surface normal? The Transform > Orient command can do that job, see here: http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=3977.2

*** aling surface same as on link but in orto views(top/left/right)
snap on surface on orto views


> 4.? rotate on 3d view - found it's mostly impossible to rotate any object from 3d view, have
> to cplane, and adjust afterwards from ortos
> ! zbursh the same rotation axis -> for reference

MoI is a CAD program and isn't as focused on rotating stuff just by an eyeballed amount in the 3D view - in the ortho view you can use the edit frame rotation grip to quickly rotate an object. In the 3D view if you want to rotate around a particular line you can use the Transform > Rotate > Axis command, which lets you pick 2 points for a specific rotation axis line.

!!! Thanks !!!
*** new mechanic for me

> 5.? align/snap second point for rotation in 3d view surface/slide on edge,point
> ! custom aling to camera view

Sorry I think I'd need to see what you're trying to do for this one.


*** immage atached

> 6.? momentarily turn off snapping for object snap/straight snap same as alt do for

You can hold down Alt to temporarily turn off object snap or straight snap. Move the mouse around while Alt is still held down to move it freely without snapping.


*** as far i was searching for hotkey just for that !
if i need to work just with straight lines, turn off others and oposite

> 7.? add single point - couldn't find the script for it - wanna use it for snapping lines to it, or others
> spapping options, found it somewhere, can't find it now

It's under Draw curve > More > Point.

!! Thanks !!!

> 8.? visual effect of edges
> - smaller than 1, i've tried to modify from moi.ini, no results ! other posibilites ? if i have tons of detail to make it thinner !
> - & another option will be to clip some closests edges if too much detail,

You can't go smaller than 1 pixel but there is an option you can set in moi.ini to make the antialiasing to be tighter, giving a slimmer appearance, see here:
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=5961.2

*** using thin antialiasing too, thinner ! or clipping, seems it isnt

> 9.? realtime outline diffrent color selected open surfaces - xsi have such function, i think other

Sorry no there's no function for that currently - in general I've tried to avoid putting too many special indicator colors on the screen because it can often be confusing.

it might be and option ))) in menu )))

> 11.? local move/rotate/scale
> - oriented bounty box of extremes

*** atachment 11.local_axis
X- red - the longest extremes
Y- blue -medium extremes
Z- green - shortest extreme
local cplane if possible,
// why not common cplane - hard to find those extremes
// why -> flexibility to view pushing operations(extrude), offline, control depth
// if needed i will bring examples where i use it & where i found it usefull
I realise that axis wont be for roate/scale, cplane will work fine !

> 12.? scale 2d- zbrush like, in moi can be different
> move tool either scale tool -> holding "a button" from 1'st point to second snap (ps: in zbrush is move tool)

There is a command for doing 2D scaling under Transform > Scale > Scale2D . You can also do it by holding down the Shift key while you are dragging a corner of the 2D edit frame'.

*** I'm looking towards optimising some of tools under one tool !'

> 15.? paste small objects with auto-align surface
!! Thanks !!!

> 16.? 3 edges to close surface

*** atachment 16.3_edges_closed
atachment 16.3_edges_closed_02

> 25.? drawing curves in 3d view

You can draw curves in the 3D view, you just click the mouse there, you'll need to either snap on to an existing surface or set the cplane how you need it to control where the points are going though.'

*** i was testing with freeform sketch - it doest have any form of snapping, at least 1'st point' :)

> 33.? camera doll ! 3d/orto

Need more information on this one.

*** if screen is x&y to roate camera under Z
// can be done from cplane, sometimes easier to rotate just camera


> 37.? copy/paste without options, bounding box
> //i'm doing from hotkeys: copy/paste & it appears a bounting box

I'd need to see it to understand what you mean by this.

*** dublicate object at same location ! i'm doing it from hotkey that will be (copy, paste) afterwards it asking for for targeting point - that i want to avoid ! lets say that i wanna make a dublicate just for rotation or just for scale - no need to ask me orientation to make a move tool after !
// or if it's an option to make just 1 dublicate of object

> 38.? overlap hide - i'm a xsi user, and there's a grouping option that can overlap the
> current state of the object ! what for overlapping !
> * lets say i have a complex model, after blocking i wanna start working on details, split
> model, and hide others, overlap others as Hide, while "Unhide All" objets overlap wont
> allow me to unhide the rest ! therefore i can work just on part that i want without needs
> to copy-paste to second moi window the model/object itself !

Sounds like you want the "Isolate" function of Edit > Hide, it's available by a right-click on the Hide button and it is covered in the help file:
http://moi3d.com/3.0/docs/moi_command_reference4.htm#hide

*** example: i have a toy factory that can produce 3 toys ! cats, dogs and rabbits ! I need to model 3 models ! i'm boxing or sketching outlines of all 3 ! wanna work just on dog, overlap cat and rabit with hide & start working on dog ! wanna do close detail on tail - isolate selection just for tail, unhide all, to see entire model how it looks, other detail - isolate just a part , do all the magic, unhide all ! to see all 3 togher toogle overlapping
*** another example: i have a car, exterior is modeled, i want to make interior, or mechanical parts:
hide with overlap outside box, or things that i think that i dont need to see, focus on some small parts with isolate, unhide all - to have an entire look of entire part(interior/or mechanical).
// that's my workflow with bigger projects, ofc there are alternatives that i've seen like naming objets and hide same naming, or by stylling, all those are good alternatives for better workflow !

> 40.? iso curve modes change from keyboard

It might be possible to do with a script on a keyboard shortcut, which command are you referring to though?

*** there only 2/ might be toogle U/V

> 42.? convert faces to outline edges

Do you mean generate silhouettes? There is a command for that under Construct > Curve > Silhou .

*** convert current face to outline or border edge that's surrounding

thanks for your time !

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 From:  Michael Gibson
8665.4 In reply to 8665.3 
Hi Cemortan, you've asked so many questions and have the discussion so mixed up there, it's pretty difficult for me to follow along on everything. I'll try to answer the questions that I understand the best and if you need more information on something I've missed then go ahead and ask for more information on that again.

So for creating a surface in this spot here:


It is awkward to attempt to build a completely new surface through a non-planar closed curve like that, unlike a plane there isn't just one single surface shape that would happen to fit to that edge. So you don't want to try and do that at all, you've already got the surface you need so you want to use that.

The way you use what you've already got is to use the Edit > Trim command to cut your main surface with the projected circles. In the final stage of the trim command where it asks you which pieces to discard, just right-click or push Done without selecting anything, that will leave all the pieces behind. Now you have 3 small pieces and you can extrude those surfaces instead of extruding the curve. The Extrude command also accepts a surface as the object to extrude, it doesn't have to take only curves. When you extrude a surface, it will be able to be capped even if its non-planar because the cap is just a copy of the original surface, it doesn't have to make up a completely new surface there. When you extrude only curves a completely new surface needs to be created for the cap and that will only happen if it's planar.

When you extrude a surface, the result will be a solid and if you want to join it back to the main surface you'll need to delete its bottom face so there are unattached edges which can be joined back to the original. Or another way which may be easier might be to join the fragments together so you have a solid again but with divided up faces and then select the face sub-object and extrude that. When you extrude a face from a solid the extrusion is automatically booleaned to the solid so it cleans up the internal face for you that way.



re:
> *** aling surface same as on link but in orto views(top/left/right)
> snap on surface on orto views

Ok, I think I understand now, you don't like it that the "on surface" snap is not enabled by default in ortho views. The reason for this is that the "on surface" snap can easily cover the entire ortho screen with snap areas making it harder to place points directly on the cplane anymore. So by default ortho views only snap to more prominent snaps like end, mid, etc... this puts more weight to 2D behavior when you're drawing in the ortho view. Additionally when you are drawing a curve in an ortho view, any snaps you do after the first one will be projected onto a plane going through the first point so you will get a 2D result when drawing in the 2D view even if you have snapped on to points at different levels. When you're picking points in the 3D view all these restrictions are lifted and you can place points freely, like if you snap to opposite corners of a box in the 3D view it will give you a diagonal line in 3D while if you do it in an ortho view it will be a flat line.

Hope that helps explain the reasons for this behavior. You can adjust it if you want, forcing the projection of snaps after the first one to the same plane is controlled by Options > Object snap options > "Project to plane in ortho views", and enabling OnSrf snap in ortho views is set in moi.ini, see here: http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=2267.2

But you should be aware that messing with these settings can make it more difficult to get predictable 2D drawing behavior when working in the ortho views.


re:
> *** dublicate object at same location ! i'm doing it from hotkey that will be (copy, paste)
> afterwards it asking for for targeting point - that i want to avoid ! lets say that i wanna make
> a dublicate just for rotation or just for scale - no need to ask me orientation to make a move
> tool after ! or if it's an option to make just 1 dublicate of object

The regular copy and paste commands do not ask you for any targeting point, they just immediately duplicate the object like you want, with the duplicate selected.

There are some additional copy and paste commands that do ask you for targeting information, you'll need to set these up on different shortcut keys and if you don't want the targeting one use the regular one and if you do want it use the other one.



> *** example: i have a toy factory that can produce 3 toys ! cats, dogs and rabbits ! I need to model
> 3 models ! i'm boxing or sketching outlines of all 3 ! wanna work just on dog, overlap cat and rabit with
> hide & start working on dog ! wanna do close detail on tail - isolate selection just for tail, unhide all, to see
> entire model how it looks, other detail - isolate just a part , do all the magic, unhide all ! to see all 3 togher toogle overlapping

You would want to use the Scene Browser to do that kind of hiding and showing: http://moi3d.com/3.0/docs/moi_command_reference11.htm#scenebrowser

You would assign a different name or style to each of the cat, dog, and rabbit and then in the scene browse if you want to show only the objects named Cat you can do that with one single right click on the eye icon for that name or style. When you right-click in the scene browser it does isolate, when you left click it toggles just that one thing.

Then later on if you want to show everything you can right-click on that eye icon again or you can also use the regular Edit > Hide command to show all objects as well.

If you want to temporarily work on just one object and hide everything else but don't want to worry about setting up a name or style assignment for it, that's when you can use the Isolate function on the Edit > Hide button instead of the scene browser.


re: toggle UV direction shortcut - I tried this but it looks like it's not possible right now because the state changing code currently only engages when it's picked with the mouse. That's something that I'll have to tune up in v4.

That's all the time I have at the moment to answer questions, if you have more maybe you can prioritize your top 4 and post just those since it is difficult for me to handle such a long list all at once.

- Michael
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 From:  r2d3
8665.5 In reply to 8665.3 
Hi Cemortan_Tudor,

if you ask SO MANY QUESTIONS which are very difficult to understand and to answer Michael will have NO MORE TIME TO FINISH V4.
The most questions will find a answer if you study the forum and if you play around yourself with fantastic MOI!
Only my 3 cent... ;-)

Ralf
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 From:  Cemortan_Tudor
8665.6 
Small improvement workflow, deselects obects after point pressing hotkey
showpoints script

#include "GetObjects.js"

function DoShowPoints()
{
var AnyChange = moi.geometryDatabase.showPoints();

if ( !AnyChange )
{
moi.ui.beginUIUpdate();
moi.ui.showUI( 'ShowPointsBody' );
moi.ui.endUIUpdate();

var objectpicker = moi.ui.createObjectPicker();
if ( !GetObjects( objectpicker ) )
return;

moi.geometryDatabase.showPoints();
//moi.geometryDatabase.deselectAll();
}
}

DoShowPoints();
moi.geometryDatabase.deselectAll();
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 From:  Cemortan_Tudor
8665.7 
16.? 3 edges to close surface
*** the way i'm doing know is selecting 2 -> loft, others 2 - network, and last one network ! lots of operations !

there was a video of car modeling, where he was trying to refine corners of modified fillet area (fillet intersection)
i will script it


31.? are any options for sliders/buttons on 3d viewport
initialisation menu for selection option, in moi can be applied as for creating objects, or bringing stuff from obj library - well script depended
https://vimeo.com/36732689
https://modelab.github.io/react-radial/

EDITED: 13 Nov by CEMORTAN_TUDOR

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 From:  Michael Gibson
8665.8 In reply to 8665.7 
Hi Cemortan,

re:
> there was a video of car modeling, where he was trying to refine corners of
> modified fillet area (fillet intersection)
> i will script it

If you could post a 3DM file with what you're trying to do that would probably help me understand your question better.


> 31.? are any options for sliders/buttons on 3d viewport
> initialisation menu for selection option, in moi can be applied as for creating objects,
> or bringing stuff from obj library - well script depended

There isn't any option currently for a pie type menu. In general I've tried to avoid popping things right up in your face like that but it is somethng that I'd like to experiment with in the future.

- Michael
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 From:  Cemortan_Tudor
8665.9 
thanks for your time
here's video, i wanna try myself, i have large list of implementation that i wanna do :) starting teaching scripting.
https://youtu.be/xr6WBeHbzK0?t=12m43s

clone selected objects

#include "GetObjects.js"
function cloneObj() {

var gd = moi.geometryDatabase;
var gds = gd.getSelectedObjects();
gd.deselectAll();
for ( var i = 0; i < gds.length; ++i ){
var newclone = gds.item(i).clone();
gd.addObject(newclone);
newclone.selected = true;
}
}
cloneObj();
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Message 8665.10 deleted 18 Nov by CEMORTAN_TUDOR
 

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