Tech info needed before switch to a new computer  1-20  21-40  41-52

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 From:  mkdm
8406.1 
Hi Michael.

How are you ? I hope fine!

It's been a while since my last post here...

I need a tech info.

I hope later this year or within the first months of next year to switch to a brand new pc workstation.

I'm evaluating to get a new machine equipped with a Nvidia Pascal card series GTX 1080 and latest i7 7700K cpu/DDR4 ram.

For some years I own and use an old Nvidia Quadro card (K3100M) wich is very well designed for OpenGL rather than DirectX.

My questions is :

How the current MOI and the upcoming V4 will run on a Pascal GTX 1080 card that, for what I know, is very well designed for DirectX rather than OpenGL ?

Thanks for your help.

- Marco (mkdm)
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 From:  Michael Gibson
8406.2 In reply to 8406.1 
Hi Marco, I have not personally tested the Pascal GTX 1080 card myself, so I don't really have any direct first hand knowledge to give to you about it. However, I have not heard any problems about that card and I don't know of any reason why MoI should not run fine on it. Really any modern card should be fine I would think.

- Michael
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 From:  mkdm
8406.3 In reply to 8406.2 
Thanks Michael for your quick response.

Just one last question.

So...as I understand, Moi leverages on DirectX and not OpenGL ?

Thanks always for your support and have a nice day.

- Marco (mkdm)
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 From:  Michael Gibson
8406.4 In reply to 8406.3 
Hi Mauro, yes that's correct, on Windows MoI v3 uses Direct3D9 and not OpenGL.

This will probably be slightly different with v4, MoI will probably use Direct3D11 on Windows with MoI v4. I'll actually be starting work on that shortly, it's almost the last area that I have left to do before the first v4 beta.

Really all new cards support Direct3D well, because it's used by Windows itself in the operating system. It's OpenGL support on Windows that can vary a lot between cards, mostly because the card vendors only supply good drivers with their "workstation" level cards.

- Michael
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 From:  mkdm
8406.5 In reply to 8406.4 
Tahnks a lot Michael for clarifications.

P.S. I'm Marco not Mauro :)

Have a nice day.

- Marco (mkdm)
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 From:  Michael Gibson
8406.6 In reply to 8406.5 
Oops sorry Marco.
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 From:  mkdm
8406.7 
Good morning.

I apologize Michael if I write here a a message for a specific persons but I tried to write them with a PM without success,
and anyway this message is strictly related to the subject of this topic.

Hi "chippwalters" and "Zarkow" and good morning.

I would need a more specific help relating the subject of this topic and I think that you could give me a "daily job" point of view.

if I remember correctly I have read some times ago that for your daily job you currently use a Pascal GTX 1080 card or new powerful Quadro card.

Now I'm evaluating to switch to a brand new workstation (mobile or tower, I still don't know) later this year
or within the first months of next year.

My current config is :

Laptop Clevo P770ZM
i7 4790K 4.0 - 4.4 Ghz
32 Gb Ram DDR3 1600
Nvidia Quadro K3100M 4Gb 768 cuda cores
Windows 10 Pro 64 Bit
Sata3 SSD

My main job is software developing (a lot of code compiling....) but for my hobby (and sometimes for my job) I use a plenty of 2D and 3D software
(PS, Affinity Designer/Photo, Rhino3D, Moi, Fusion 360, Thea Render, 3D Coat, Instant Light realtime renderer, etc, etc...)

Most of that software leverages on OpenGL APi/Hardware and my Quadro K3100M, although it is rather slow compared to modern cards,
still does a good job.

But I need more horse power and I'm evaluating to get a new machine equipped with a Nvidia Pascal card series GTX 1080
and the latest i7 7700K cpu with DDR4 ram 2400 Mhz and very fast PCI SSD.

I'm also considering the purchase of a Pascal Quadro P4000 rather than the GTX for the new computer.

But I'm confused.

Based on your very good experience, how a GTX 1080 is comparable to a Pascal Quadro P4000 (or 5000) for all the software pipeline
that I currently use ?

In your opinion, how the current MOI or the upcoming V4 or a CPU/GPU renderer like TheaRender or 3DCoat or a CAD software like Rhino will work on a GTX compared to a Pascal Quadro card ?

I know that my questions are numerous and maybe it's difficult to give an exhaustive answer....

Anyway, thanks for your help and have a nice day.

- Marco (mkdm)
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 From:  BurrMan
8406.8 In reply to 8406.7 
GTX or QUADRO?
Here's a non exaustive opinion.

The GTX is a funny car. The QUADRO is a 4x4.

Take your GTX to the drag stip. Take your QUADRO to the amazon.

For programs like 3dcoat, lumion (render) etc, the quadro seems inadequate, but will crunch through it. RAM is also king.

For CAD and computation, the GTX will have less stability and prone to errors.....

It is more "2 seperate tools for seperate jobs" than "either or"....

Which are you willing to sacrifice?
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Message 8406.9 deleted 4 May by MKDM

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 From:  mkdm
8406.10 In reply to 8406.8 
Hi BurrMan and thanks a lot for your considerations.

@You : "...For programs like 3dcoat, lumion (render) etc, the quadro seems inadequate..."

Well...I think that with a Pascal Quadro P4000 things should go well enough :)

Anyway...I'm in no hurry and I think I will spent some times in the coming months searching for a optimal and affortable
workstation with a Quadro P4000.

There are many interesting "monsters" out there...

https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/view/Pro-CAD-2000-pc/

https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/view/PHX-M4000-I7-X/

https://www.workstationshop.it/product.php~idx~~~1203~~Workstation+Computer+Wks669+INTEL+i7+7700K+SKYLAKE+32GB+DDR4+SSD+500GB+HD+2TB+NVIDIA+QUADRO+P4000+8GB+WIFI~.html

https://www.workstationshop.it/product.php~idx~~~1199~~Workstation+Computer+Wks665+Intel+i7+6800K+NVIDIA+QUADRO+P4000+8GB+32GB+DDR4+SSD+500GB+HD+2TB~.html

The search is hard...

See you.

- Marco (mkdm)
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 From:  BurrMan
8406.11 In reply to 8406.10 
Don't forget that when you see guys doing "massive multi million poly count" work, they will most definitely have 32 (Bare min), 64 and +++ RAM!!! Just to open the model and allow a GPU to work.

http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html

The QUADRO will give you drivers which can be profiled (Even for specific apps)

If you are not using that, or have them in concert with Xeons and ECC RAM, then for what?

I7's = GTX
Xeons = QUADRO
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 From:  mkdm
8406.12 In reply to 8406.11 
Thanks BurrMan.

So... If I understand correctly, you're saying that a Quadro workstation must have a XEON processor
and that i7 (Kaby Lake) is not a good choice.

This could be a serious problem...XEON workstations are too much expensive...

I'm still confused.

There are so many different tech articles around...

I know that a Pascal GTX 1080 TI is a monster and it has much more cuda cores compared to P4000
but I'm also searching a professional card that can give a very good performance with CAD software (like Rhino 3D).

I'm not a gamer.

The problem is that I don't know how these software will run on a NON-Quadro card like GTX 1080 :

Photoshop CC, Rhino 3D, Thea Render and Octane, Moi, Fusion 360.

If GTX 1080 Ti will run that kind of software wihout any problem at faster than Quadro P4000 I will certailny be very happy to get it :)
(what about this ? http://www.corsair.com/en-us/landing/one but with 32 Gb)

Anyway, thanks for your suggestions.

I stay tuned!

- Marco (mkdm)
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 From:  BurrMan
8406.13 In reply to 8406.12 
Hey Marco,
""""""""""you're saying that a Quadro workstation must have a XEON processor""""""""""

No. But no need to put a V8 into a Datsun 300Z......

""""""""""and that i7 (Kaby Lake) is not a good choice.""""""""""""

I7's are very powerful processors. Nothing wrong with them.

What I'm saying is the 2 sets go together. Opposites kindof cancel out the reason for choosing the More expensive, or the less expensive one...

What I'm saying is, if you don't build a "real workstation", which is basically xeon/quadro/ECC based (Very expensive), then trying to mix any of those components into the other hardware, is wasted money.

"MOST" applications wont really care what Card you are running. Rhino wont be any better on a GTX Titan, or a Quadro 6000...

The "Better" comes in 2 places.

An app that was written to take advantage of 1 architecture over the other. Lumion is an example. There programming specifically targets GTX card capabilities. (I think 3dcoat does this too)

The other area is "massive computation/background services". xeon/quadro,ecc hands down.

I think most of the fancy new "real time render" etc, falls into the GTX category....

Again my opinion was:

1. Power and stability = xeon/quadro mix
2. Lightning fast = i7 GTX mix

3. gtx and xeon, or quadro and i7 = bad mix...

And off course, the only one of those that have anything to do with MoI, in my opinion, will be the workstation class xeon and ECC Ram. It will crunch until the cows come home.


""""""""""""""The problem is that I don't know how these software will run on a NON-Quadro card like GTX 1080 : Photoshop CC, Rhino 3D, Thea Render and Octane, Moi, Fusion 360."""""""""""""""""""""

The only one of those that would care, would be Fusion. The CNC calcs.... FEA.... etc. But it WOULD run fine on a gtx also.

I mean.... "What do you plan to do with Fusion?" Multi million dollar plastic injection molds? or just some modeling....
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 From:  mkdm
8406.14 In reply to 8406.13 
Hi BurrMan.

Thank you very much for your detailed reply!

You are very helpful :)

As I said I'm not in hurry and I will continue to search a very good possible configuration (compatible with my budget).

Your words are really helpful and clear :

@You : "Again my opinion was:
1. Power and stability = xeon/quadro mix
2. Lightning fast = i7 GTX mix
3. gtx and xeon, or quadro and i7 = bad mix..."

Thanks a lot.

The fact is that, as I said in my previous posts, I currently own a very stable and reliable Quadro K3100M,
that, although it is not comparable with modern cards in terms of computing power, it crunches all kind of software
that is in my current pipeline, both OpenGL and DirectX (2D and 3D)

My only fear is that a "GTX 1080 TI" will lack in reliability.

That is, if I can translate in "poor" words :

1) Sporadic rendering errors in rendering software (Thea Render, Octane, Istant Light...)
2) Incompatibility issues
3) Hardware components more "fragile" compared to a Quadro.

But i'm totally not and expert of these things...and I have also to consider that modern Quadro cards are TOO MUCH expensive..

Anyway...I take your suggestions very seriously!

Thanks again.

- Marco (mkdm)
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 From:  BurrMan
8406.15 In reply to 8406.14 
I'm in the exact same boat Marco....

I really want a new titan box with a trillion bytes of ram, but i'm worried the same way. I have been working on a xeon/quadro box for years. But i suffer in the newer technologies now....

If i got a new gtx system, i still have the old one, but dont really want to go back to a split system, with some things on one and some things on the other. I like having everything on one now, so i compromise.

For me, the workstation is still cutting the mustard. But i dont work in a vfx shop, etc...
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 From:  BurrMan
8406.16 In reply to 8406.15 
Another thing to consider is when nvidia comes out with the new "oden, 32 gb card", it will be 1k upgrade, vs the new "quadro 7000" which will be $4,000....

(Fictionary video cards, but ringing true)
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 From:  mkdm
8406.17 In reply to 8406.15 
Thanks a lot BurrMan for sharing your point of view.

You're right : we are in the same boat!

In the meantime I'm doing a web search here and there trying to figure out what kind of
hardware configuration I should assemble to get a very reliable and powerful PC under 3000 (max 3500) Eur.

What really matters to me is to know if my current software pipeline will be FULLY supported
by the new hardware and with (I expect) great performance.

As I said, I'm absolutely not a gamer and computer gfx is not my main job, although often I have to produce some piece of
computer gfx (2D and 3D) to use with the software I write or to create some presentation or concept.

Regarding 3D gfx, my works are only relative to visual renderings and not printing or manufacturing or engineering calculation.

So, in short, all I ask to the new machine is to run very very fast and without compatibility issues for this scenario :

1) 2D work in Photoshop CC, Paint Storm Studio and Corel Painter :
All these software have powerful brush engines that leverages on modern gfx cards.
But I can't still figure out HOW, for example, Photoshop CC run on a GTX 1080 Ti. I have found nothing interesting in the web...

2) Will GTX 1080 Ti run Thea Render, Octane, Rhino 3D, 3D-Coat at blazing sped without rendering errors ?

3) Speaking about i7....I have not still understood which one will be better to couple to a GTX 1080 Ti :
i7-7700k for the fastest cpu clock speed per core, or a 6 core 6850K but with lower clock speed per core.

Also, just to consider all the possibilities...I've found an Italian vendor that has in its catalog this PC Tower :
Workstation Computer Wks669 INTEL i7 7700K SKYLAKE 32GB DDR4 SSD 500GB HD 2TB NVIDIA QUADRO P4000 8GB WIFI
All for € 2.598,00.

So again a Quadro ?
P4000 has "only" 8Gb and "only" 1792 cuda, but it's for sure more reliable than GTX...or not ?
PC with a P5000 costs a fortune.....

Oh...What a headache !!

Anyway, thanks again for your help :)

P.S.

Maybe Chipp Walters uses for his daily job a GTX 1080 and could give me his point of view...

See you.

- Marco (mkdm)
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 From:  Mauro (M-DYNAMICS)
8406.18 
@Burr:we are in the same boat
Wow!...after years of following you here,finally a phrase i can cleary understand :)
We use to say the same here !

Marco you can also consider the brand new AMD Ryzen cpu:8 cores-16 threads
https://www.tomshw.it/test-ryzen-7-1800x-nuovo-processore-punta-amd-83750
Same power but half price
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 From:  BurrMan
8406.19 In reply to 8406.18 
Mauro,
Better than a sharp stick in the eye! A rolling stone gathers no moss. Here's to mud in your eye!

Can i say that again?

I'm not very good at explaining. A tutor i am not. But i always forget that there are "other parts of the world" here... seems like 1 happy community!

I'll try harder... to not be a skifozo :o
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 From:  mkdm
8406.20 In reply to 8406.18 
Hi Mauro!

Thanks for your suggestions, but I think I prefer to remain with Intel.
I don't know AMD cpu and I prefer to avoid unpleasant surprises...

Anyway, I think that for the time being I will go for a configuration like this :

CPU : i7-7700k
Mother board : MSI - Z270 Gaming M7 DDR4 M.2 SOCKET 1151 (or similar)
RAM : Corsaire 32GB Kit Vengeance Led DDR4-3000
SSD : SAMSUNG - 500GB 960 EVO SSD NVMe M.2
MSI - GTX 1080 Ti Armor 11GB

But...I will continue to search around the web to get better knowledge on how that kind of hardware
could work with my gfx software pipeline (2d/ 3D both DirectX and OpenGL)

Thanks again for help.

- Marco (mkdm)
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