Quick check-in about workflow, and V4.
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 From:  Mauro (M-DYNAMICS)
8361.7 
A basic dimension system,choosing like A4 or A3 format then export sheet in PDF should be good enough for most of us ;)
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 From:  FDP
8361.8 In reply to 8361.6 
Thanks Michael,
I did not take any offense to your initial response, just wanted to be clear that I don't mean to be pushy! Being the sole force behind a piece of software like MoI seems like an enormous undertaking in itself, let alone trying to continuously grow that software and deal with customer requests and support.

For the linked picture reference I think I just confused things a bit. Sometimes I will edit a reference image after loading it (for example to increase contrast on edges), but I'm pretty sure that MoI reloads the images when you re-load a file anyway, so this isn't a big issue (and of course you already have the "reload" button). Mainly I just wish that if I moved some curves I generated from a reference image the image could stay locked to the curves.

I've use MoI for both mechanical and artistic uses (for me as a designer they often mix together) and have found that it plays very nicely with 2D software for vector output as well as 3D 3rd party software through IGES or Step and .obj/.stl for 3D printing. The only issue I've had in mixed workflow are face direction being broken on occasion, otherwise it has fed everything from graphic arts to gaming workflows with relative ease.
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 From:  AlexPolo
8361.9 
Hi All,

Even though parametric tools like Solidworks have strong merits I find that as part of my work flow I store base geometry in hidden layers or object names I can reconstruct even complex models very quickly by going back to base build stage. Perhaps in this workflow having a ARCHIVE HIDE function as I find switching individual layers/objects on and off in complex models the only repetitive function - that way the base build parts could be kept hidden withing the model and only switched back on when really required. As far placing parts in complex models a more advanced ORIENT tools like multi point orientation so that you can precisely place parts into large assemblies would certainly help. Minor thoughts.
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 From:  FDP
8361.10 In reply to 8361.9 
Hi AlexPolo,
I essentially do the same as you - I tend to break models down into the base curves, and then steps for each operation to get to the final model and I hide the base geometry. The thing is, if you create an extrusion, for example, from a base curve and then directly edit the base curve you will see that the changes permute through to the extruded geometry (the same is true for making changes to mirrored or arrayed geometry). There is a one-step limit to this functionality at the moment, but it is there in some form.

I pretty routinely have 11-12 steps to get to a final geometry, and more importantly, have secondary geometry that is linked to a primary (take, for example, a part that fits into another part with a gap that is formed using the curve offset command). Here the existing MoI methodology can necessitate significant rebuilt times based on pretty simple base curve changes, even if there is a straight-forward procedure outlined by careful object naming (hours in the worst cases when multiple parts depend on each other).

From my perspective, having to manually do the rebuild is really where the workflow gets killed, even if it were easier to organize the manual steps from a user perspective, the real solution is just tracking the operations history of an object and allowing for it to be rebuilt based on changes to the input geometry. Another side effect of relying on hidden geometry is that file sizes are significantly impacted by having multiple copies of everything (I get into the 250MB size sometimes for relatively simple final models just from having all the internal revisions as separate hidden objects).

In some CAD software every object has it's own internal plane associated with it, and then a vector transform is applied to place the object geometry into the world view. I think without this ability for an object to have its own internal plane and then a transform attached you can't ever really do assemblies properly, as you can't know whether the object is in world space or object space.

My personal solution to these workflow issues at the moment is to feed MoI curves into Rhino and then use Grasshopper to set up a parametric workflow. There are a few really annoying issues in Grasshopper, but since they allow for Python scripting I can almost always write a little function to get myself around most of them, or add functionality as needed. The thing is that 90% of what I'm doing could just be done with the above-outline workflow in MoI, and Rhino + Grasshopper requires two relative large screens to really use effectively. Also, jumping into Rhino and invoking grasshopper kills the speed efficiency I get from using MoI in the first place. I have never found anything that works as well on one screen of almost any size as MoI - Michael pretty much nailed CAD UI better than any other software I have ever used (Maya, Houdini, Rhino, Solidworks, 3DS Max, Blender, Sketchup).

For multi-point orientation, I usually create a circle from 3-points on a circle found in a piece of input geometry and then use the created curve to manage rotations and scaling of the part. Not going to solve it for something super-complex, but I have found the process to be somewhat painless. It would be really nice to be able to have a quick command to temporarily turn any subsequent curves into a piece of temporary measurement/orientation geometry, and then allow for an close command to delete all those curves. Seems like low-hanging fruit and could allow for faster sketching (going to go see if this already exists).
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 From:  eric (ERICCLOUGH)
8361.11 In reply to 8361.7 
Hi Michael ...

Will the V4 Beta include some basic dimensions? and, if so, will it incorporate into Rhino?

While Rhino and MoI are well integrated now once I switch to Rhino for some finish work it is not easy to switch back as dimensions and Rhino text don't show in MoI.

My goal is to do more work in MoI and less in Rhino.

cheers,
eric
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 From:  Michael Gibson
8361.12 In reply to 8361.11 
Hi eric, the first v4 beta will not have dimensions yet, it will have the same features as v3 initially except that it will be 64-bit and a native Mac build.

After the first beta is out then I'll be working on new features and basic dimensions are high on my radar so I hope to be able to work on them during the beta period. But I don't know exactly when they will be implemented or how they will interact with Rhino dimensions yet, I won't know more details about that area until I've been able to spend some time on it.

- Michael
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 From:  eric (ERICCLOUGH)
8361.13 In reply to 8361.12 
Thanks Michael.
I'm glad to hear that dimensions are fairly high on your priority list.
In my anticipation I forget that first you have to do a major rebuild before you can get to the details.
MoI is delightful for modeling and pretty good at basic 2d stuff. Unfortunately much of architectural work is in the 2d details and dimensions.
I just look forward to the day when I can keep working in MoI most of the time.
cheers,
eric
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 From:  Michael Gibson
8361.14 In reply to 8361.13 
Hi eric, yeah it's been pretty frustrating to do all this work just to get back to the same feature set to start with. It would definitely be more fun to have been working on new features instead of the rewrite. But I do get an awful lot of questions relating to running out of memory and various quirks in the Mac version. So having those things ironed out really well will be worth it in the long run. It's one of those things where it just gets harder and harder the more you put it off!

It won't be too much longer before the first v4 beta, I still have just one big area to work on which is the viewport display.

- Michael
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Message 8361.15 deleted 13 Apr 2017 by YOPHIE
 

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