Moi, Materials & .mtl

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 From:  Ced (FRACTIONALIST)
8279.1 
DISCLAIMER - WARNING
If you are experiencing any undesirable reactions to my writing style - or feel anxious - please stop reading now.

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llexandro makes awesome KeyShot materials -

Anyone know how he makes those .mtl materials - e.g., what software he uses?

What exactly does Moi3d offer towards reaching the goal of making materials for KeyShot?

Is there any mtl specific software for construction of these besides the KeyShot Pro? I have the HD without the full material editing capabilities - not keen on 1000 USD PRO upgrade - just to make materials (unless I have no other choice) - what are the options - besides using https://cloud.keyshot.com/index.php materials download page - (other peeps materials!)?
Cheers,
Jeronimo Pensis




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 From:  Michael Gibson
8279.2 In reply to 8279.1 
Hi Ced, MoI does not do anything towards reaching the goal of making materials for KeyShot, MoI is only focused on making models not on making rendering materials. You need to do the material design in a rendering program, not inside of MoI.

You can set up material _assignments_ inside of MoI by controlling which style each object is assigned to, then when you export to .obj format there will be a basic material set up in the .obj file for each style with the respective objects assigned to it. But as far as defining the specific look and properties of the material you do that outside of MoI.

- Michael
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 From:  Ced (FRACTIONALIST)
8279.3 In reply to 8279.2 
...in that case looks like I'm resigned to upgrading to KeyShot Pro! Yikes! Thought there might be a dedicated mtl editor - somewhere.
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 From:  futagoza (STEFAN)
8279.4 In reply to 8279.3 
Maybe software like Substance Painter/Designer or 3DCoat are ideal for you to create materials.

Check for example chipp's workflow with MoI, 3DCoat and Keyshot:

http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI

or have a look at Substance Painter/Keyshot workflow (simply google for it):

https://support.allegorithmic.com/documentation/display/SPDOC/Keyshot

Regards
Stefan
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 From:  TpwUK
8279.5 In reply to 8279.3 
Substance Tools on a Rent to Buy licence - For how little it costs per month it's a great deal. The textures you create with them can be imported directly into KeyShot.
You might also be interested in Filter Forge, that has a huge discount on at the moment for their v6 release.

Martin
(TpwUK)
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 From:  Ced (FRACTIONALIST)
8279.6 
DISCLAIMER & WARNING: If you find anything in my writing style offensive or upsetting - please stop reading and seek psychiatric advice from a certified medical tactician immediately>

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Hi thanks - Looks like https://www.allegorithmic.com/products/substance-designer which appears to be exactly what I'm seeking - a dedicated materials editor software - NODES & SLIDERS - however, this video is encouraging https://youtu.be/NzKtubDsC9o

So this is a lot less than spending 1000 USD to upgrade from KeyShot HD to PRO - and - who knows - I prefer a dedicated program and I doubt KeyShot has this depth of control: https://youtu.be/dSfIERQUm4I

Next question - how would you add these textures to the Moi3d interface? (You were waiting for this question! Right?)

After further research, it appears Keyshot Pro (6) has the best solution for materials (mtl) editing - it appears to be, by comparison to Substance Designer - more practical in how materials are made compared to Substance Designer. The KeyShot interface is simple & straightforward - where you drag & drop the textures - use nodes & sliders - and you see instantly the results. Although the upGrade from KeyShot 6HD to PRO is 1000 USD - compared to Substance Designer's 149 USD, the learning curve in Substance Designer is steep compared to KeyShot Pro 6, and the interface is 'more convoluted' than KeyShot's GUI, which is really straight forward & practical. Here's the tutorial on youTube showing how the materials editor works: https://youtu.be/5EDJkN6SPLA

What's really cool is http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI which is the KeyShot Plugin for MOI: by Andrei Samardac

What we need is a Modded-Moi3d to replace the SloLow Moi3d, which has all the whistles & bells - all the custom nodes, scripts & plugins - hello? Michael? and a black interface that's easy on the eyes!
Cheers,
Fock Pensis

EDITED: 28 Jan by FRACTIONALIST

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 From:  keith1961
8279.7 In reply to 8279.6 
Hi
You might also be interested in looking at Filter Forge https://www.filterforge.com/ its often at 80% discount.
Best regards
Keith
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 From:  Ced (FRACTIONALIST)
8279.8 
Filter Forge doesn't seem to save as mtl - and appears to be more oriented to work with PhotoShop than KeyShot - 1000 USD is a lot to upgrade just to get materials editing capabilities - unless its 149 for Substance Design - however, KeyShot Pro 6 has a much more sensible editor (in my opinion) - if you cough up 850 USD for the sensible practicality and user friendly interface controls! Sheeesh!
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 From:  PaQ
8279.9 In reply to 8279.8 
Hello,

.obj + .mtl are really obsolete formats.

.mtl is just a txt file that references textures path, and store some basic surface parameters (diffuse color, reflection amount), but it's not a 'universal' transfer format,
as every render engine use different way to describe materials. Most of the time you manage to recover the diffuse textures, nothing more.

PBR surface description is already easier to translate between render softwares (offline or realtime), but still require some adjustment.
Anyway, it''s much more practical to create materials in the render engine of your choice.
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 From:  Ced (FRACTIONALIST)
8279.10 
Warning: if you are sensitive you may find my writing style too graphic, and upsetting, if so, please stop reading and seek medical attention now.

POST:

PBR format? That stands for PROFESSIONAL BULL RIDERS.

I'll check it out - and that's a good point - making materials within the renderer I'm using - sensible but not practical to spend 1000 for a material edit feature.

Whatever happened to the Smirnov KeyShot Plugin? That was a gem.

Anyway, I finally reached the stage where I'm about to install the MOI3D NODES, with trepidation! The caution regards sorting out what's the current latest node, and making sure nothing overwrites my custom config! THAT WOULD BE A NIGHTMARE!

EDITED: 29 Jan by FRACTIONALIST

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 From:  PaQ
8279.11 In reply to 8279.10 
Hello,
After a little more investigation (I'm not familiar with KS), KS indeed use .mtl to store materials description, but it's some sort of a KS .mtl version, as the data structure is quite different from what a wavefront .mtl.

KS code :

#define material "William Wallace" {
surface "lux_general" {
"diffuse" 0.639216 0.639216 0.639216,
"specular" 0 0 0,
"ambient" 0 0 0,
"alpha" 1,
"reflectivity" 0,
"indirect_multiplier" 1,
"texture_modulate" on,
"shadow_modulate" off,
"texture" xX433a2f55736572732fd0a0d0b8d0ba2f446f63756d656e74732f4b657953686f742f54657874757265732f706c6169643031522e6a7067,
"texture_shift_u" 0,
"texture_shift_v" 0,
"texture_tile_u" 2,
"texture_tile_v" 2,
"texture_wrapmode_u" 1,
"texture_wrapmode_v" 1,
"texture_angle" 0,
"normalmap" "plaid01L.jpg",
"normalmap_shift_u" 0,
"normalmap_shift_v" 0,
"normalmap_tile_u" 2,
"normalmap_tile_v" 2,
"normalmap_wrapmode_u" 1,
"normalmap_wrapmode_v" 1,
"normalmap_angle" 0,
"normalmap_height" 1,
"specular_shift_u" 0,
"specular_shift_v" 0,
"specular_tile_u" 1,
"specular_tile_v" 1,
"specular_wrapmode_u" 1,
"specular_wrapmode_v" 1,
"specular_angle" 0,
}
}



Wavefront .mtl

newmtl V1
Ns 19.999998
Ni 1.500000
d 1.000000
Tr 0.000000
Tf 1.000000 1.000000 1.000000
illum 2
Ka 0.588000 0.588000 0.588000
Kd 0.588000 0.588000 0.588000
Ks 0.378000 0.378000 0.378000
Ke 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000
map_Ka Z:\LGrass\PaQGrass\Textures\BladeColorV1.jpg
map_Kd Z:\LGrass\PaQGrass\Textures\BladeColorV1.jpg


In other words KS .mtl only works in KS, and it's unlikely you will find any application that could write this kind of .mtl.


PBR in this context means Physical Based Rendering.
Long story is here : https://www.marmoset.co/posts/physically-based-rendering-and-you-can-too/

It's not a file format, but more a 'better' way to describe material attributes. And somehow it's easier to transfer PBR material (textures maps) between different render engines.
So if you design some materials in Substance, you have to rebuild the shader in KS, using for exmaple this guide : (as Stephan already posted)

https://support.allegorithmic.com/documentation/display/SPDOC/Keyshot

EDITED: 29 Jan by PAQ

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 From:  PaQ
8279.12 In reply to 8279.11 
They are maybe cheaper alternative to KS that might work for you like :

Thea Studio : (295e)
https://www.thearender.com/site/index.php/products/standalone-studio.html

Octane standalone :(399$)
https://home.otoy.com/render/octane-render/

They both gives you material edition options, but they are probably not as simple to use as KS.
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 From:  Ced (FRACTIONALIST)
8279.13 
PaQ, thank you! I'll ask KS if try plan on switching to PBR in v7, however the clip on YouTube KeyShot nailed the best method for making materials in terms of practical common sense and user friendliness.

If so - fine. If not, all I need for the moment are Silicone Textures.

As far as Moi3d skins - having an alternative one like this - which would give you the OPTION (checkboxes) to the scripts, shortcuts & nodes would be sensible & practical.

I'm staring at a window full of NODES and trepidation that my custom UI will be butchered when I install them - and it's never clear what's the latest version of each add-on.

Other programs give you an option for 'CUSTOM install - or - STANDARD?'

Throwing in all the latest & greatest scripts, shortcuts & nodes with at least one other skin - would be practical - time saving and exponentially increase the value of Moi.

Below are the NODES which I'm staring at - getting ready to figure out how to install them without destroying my current install - and the best modded gui of Moi!



Cheers!

EDITED: 29 Jan by FRACTIONALIST

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 From:  keith1961
8279.14 In reply to 8279.13 
Hi
Yes Filter Forge is more geared towards Photoshop but it also produces great seamless textures which can be used with the PBR texture editor in 3d Coat.
Keith
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