Solid creation effecting fillet?  1-20  21-25

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 From:  Stien (UNCLESTAN)
8244.1 
Hey yall,
I am having some trouble filleting a cylinder onto a curved solid, although I have been able to achieve the same fillet when using a straight solid.

I am trying to recreate a specific fillet/chamfer like the one shown in this picture.



I have been able to get the same look when attaching the cylindrical element to a straight solid, like a box primitive, or an extrusion from a closed curve. However, If I attach the cylinder to a curving solid, I am unable to get the same result.



I would love to know why this particular fillet wont calculate, because I feel there is something going on behind the scenes that I am missing. Moi3d provides several ways to make the same shape, but do some of these methods restrict what you can do with that shape moving forward? For instance, differences when creating that curved solid with booleans, or extrusion, or flow.

i LOVE Moi3d - and Ive overcome puzzles like this as my knowledge grows deeper. I have tried a ton of possibilities...Theres gotta be a way to make this fillet!

The original model comes from a free kitbash set provided by Vitaly Bulgarov. An absolute Moi3d GOD
https://www.instagram.com/p/BKsBi9zDrWr/

There are so many questions that could be asked on this one. But i havent seemed to ask the right one yet.
...does the seam on the cylinder have to be in a specific place?
...is there a perfect number that for some reason wont infinitely calculate?
...Should it be a specific type of fillet?(Circular, G1, Constant..)
...Does the calculation just take a long time?
...is it effected by using non corner points in the creation of the solid?
...will this operation work better on a surface? instead of solid
...how does flow change what is possible ?
...do booleans create a fundamentally different object than extruding?
...Should i always start with a "draw solid" primitive?
.. is it curving too hard that i need different fillet values on each side, then a certain range will work for the connecting fillet?
etc etc etc.

Ive tried soO many variations
If you solve this one .. idk .. ill bake you a cake or somethin! =)

THANKS
ps. the attached .3dm doesnt have all my attempts as it wouldnt upload as an attachment, but the large file with all my attempts can be found here:
http://www.flawlessvictories.net/MoiForum/Frame19.3dm

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 From:  Michael Gibson
8244.2 In reply to 8244.1 
Hi Stien, filleting in areas that don't have a lot of room can tend to be more difficult to calculate.

One thing you might try is to select more edges to fillet in one operation rather than one at a time like it looks like you're doing. Doing them in one operation will usually give the filleter a better chance at trying to make a corner patch where the fillets collide into each other. When you do them individually the next fillet has the geometry of the previous fillet to try and deal with as well which adds complexity. It's also harder to fillet things when you're not selecting all edges that meet up at a common juncture, having 2 fillets collide into one another with an additional sharp edge coming off of it also adds complexity.

So for example in a case like this:


Then the best situation for filleting is to have all these edges filleted at once:


That's going to allow the filleter to have space to make a juncture between the fillet pieces:



If you need to leave some edges sharp instead, you may need to export your model to a different CAD program that's better at making those types of fillets, like OnShape for example. MoI's current fillet engine is going to have some difficulty with your sharp edges.


> ...does the seam on the cylinder have to be in a specific place?

Well it's good for it to not be right next to the fillet since the fillet won't be able to cross over it, it looks like you've been putting them in good spots.


> ...is there a perfect number that for some reason wont infinitely calculate?

No, it's just that as things get compressed with small distances to work with it makes things more difficult for the filleter to connect things up. When you fillet only some edges instead of all of them, it will easily happen that the fillets will be of different arc lengths where they collide into each other and then making corner junctures is much more difficult.

> ...Should it be a specific type of fillet?(Circular, G1, Constant..)

Circular probably gives you the best chance.


> ...Does the calculation just take a long time?

No, probably not in this case, it's probably just confused about how to deal with corner patches in a tight area and trying to build some messy result.


> ...is it effected by using non corner points in the creation of the solid?

Sorry I don't understand what non corner points means here.


> ...will this operation work better on a surface? instead of solid

It is possible to do filleting between 2 surfaces rather than doing edges of a solid, that does a different type of fillet calculation called a surface/surface fillet. That can succeed in situations where the edge based one will fail but it will only make the fillet surfaces for you and you'll have to manually trim them and try to fashion juncture areas yourself.


> ...how does flow change what is possible ?

Once you introduce bending it makes it more likely that 2 fillets will not be the same arc length where they collide and so it makes it much more difficult to handle the collision between them.


> ...do booleans create a fundamentally different object than extruding?

Hmmm, not particularly. But a boolean is going to give you trimmed surfaces and the side walls of an extrusion are more simple untrimmed surfaces. The cap of an extrusion is a trimmed surface though as well.


> ...Should i always start with a "draw solid" primitive?

Only if it happens to be easier to do. Extrusions from 2D curves are a good way to build things.


> .. is it curving too hard that i need different fillet values on each side, then a certain range will

Well, any curvature at all means the 2 surfaces being filleted do not meet at a single angle, their angle varies throughout the length of the fillet and that means the fillet will have different arc lengths. All the cross sections of the fillet will be of an arc of the same radius but it will be a longer or shorter arc of that radius in different areas.

You may want to do your fillets on your straight object and then warp the whole thing with fillets using Flow.

- Michael

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 From:  Michael Gibson
8244.3 In reply to 8244.1 
Hi Stien, in addition to OnShape you could also try bringing your model into ViaCAD as well, the fillet engine that either of those use is able to handle these types of fillets that meet up in sharp corners quite a bit better than MoI. MoI's filleter will probably work fine for the case of all the edges being filleted like in my above screenshot.

The type that you're trying to do just doesn't work well in MoI right now unfortunately.

- Michael
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 From:  BurrMan
8244.4 In reply to 8244.3 
I couldn't get it to work in ViaCad.

Here is the result in SpaceClaim:



Maybe someone wants to try it in OnShape?
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 From:  PaQ
8244.5 In reply to 8244.4 
The procedure works in Fusion, but I can't get the expected shape for the chamfer :S
(I don't know this software very well)


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 From:  Stien (UNCLESTAN)
8244.6 
Wow! Thank you for such a deep response and for testing some examples out. I am going to look further into some different setups before I incorporate SpaceClaim into the workflow, but that was pretty much the result I had envisioned.

That being said, I will probably contact the original artist of the piece I am recreating to ask how it was done.

Thanks! and hopefully Ill return here to share an all-Moi solution
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 From:  BurrMan
8244.7 In reply to 8244.6 
SpaceClaim is going to be close to $4k...

""""I couldn't do it in ViaCad"""""""

I did it in ViaCad!!! ($99.00)



If I do the Boolean operation in MoI, then ViaCAD fails. If I bring the solid objects into ViaCAD "Separately", then I can achieve the result.

While SpaceClaim is the best Filleter I have used, ViaCad is pretty awesome, at a REALLY good price. Not everyone using MoI is ready to throw down $3500+....

Anyway, may do some looksee in Fusion and OnShape.
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 From:  PaQ
8244.8 In reply to 8244.6 
Hi Stien,

Would be awesome if Vitaly could post some of his MoI work on the forum !
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
8244.9 
I believe that you can do that for 0 $ with the free Design Spark Mechanical! ;)

http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=6186.1
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
8244.10 
So for 0 $ with DesignSpark Mechanichal! (1.0)
:)

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 From:  PaQ
8244.11 In reply to 8244.10 
Hey Pilou, can you bring the result back in MoI ?
(sorry too lazy to try myself :P)
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
8244.12 In reply to 8244.11 
Seems I was too optimistic!

Converter .sab to .sat seems have a glitch!
All surfaces are not converted! (or I miss something inside DesignSpark ! )



http://moiscript.weebly.com/uploads/3/9/3/8/3938813/p9.rsdoc
http://moiscript.weebly.com/uploads/3/9/3/8/3938813/p9.sat

here in French the procedure...http://moiscript.weebly.com/designspark-1.html

Rename file MyObject.rsdoc in MyObject.zip
Unzip
Inside the file resulting there is ...Spaceclaim/Geometry/ ... there is a kabalistic file .sab

find the SabSatConverter.exe
In Windows line command
"C:...\SabSatConverter.exe" -i "C:\Users\Desktop\kabalistic.sab" -o "C:\Users\Desktop\MyObject.sat"

Maybe you have a better converter?

EDITED: 4 Jan by PILOU

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 From:  PaQ
8244.13 In reply to 8244.12 
Hi Pilou,

Not really, but thanks for the procedure, it might always be handy for some complex fillet scenario !
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
8244.14 In reply to 8244.13 
Yes but if the converter is not reliable that is maybe not so good! :)
Maybe Fusion 360 can makes something! :)
---
Pilou
Is beautiful that please without concept!
My Gallery
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 From:  PaQ
8244.15 In reply to 8244.14 
Hi Pilou,

Well I tried, but as I posted previously, the fillet/fillet/chamfer don't create the same kind of surface arrangement you get with viacad, spaceclaim or even MoI (when it doesn't failed) on this particular example.
And I don't see any other option in Fusion to handle this result differently. Again I maybe miss something.
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 From:  BurrMan
8244.16 In reply to 8244.13 
Here you go PaQ...

Step Exported.
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 From:  BurrMan
8244.17 In reply to 8244.15 
Hey PaQ,
Regarding the Fusion example, yeah, that's a bummer result. The "Ruled Fillet" produces the intended result, but it's a FILLET!

The Chamfer option seems to be missing the ability to "Chamfer between surfaces", which is what the Fusion workflow needs, to achieve this....

Just so you don't lose hair over it.
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 From:  PaQ
8244.18 In reply to 8244.17 
Hey Burr,

Thanks for letting me know about Fusion ! (and sor caring about my mental health ! :))
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
8244.19 In reply to 8244.15 
No I speak about help of Fusion 360 for UpLoad a ".sab" file format!
SAT/SMT Files (*.sab, *.sat, *.smb, *.smt)
It can, but alas seems the .sab file from DesignSpark is exotic or too old...
Failed!
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
8244.20 
@PaQ and other fellows!

Bingo! :) (je ne l√Ęche pas le morceau! :)

You must write -v 8 at the end of the line of the Windows Command Line!!!
(for have the command line in Windows 10 : Key Windows + R )

"C:\Program Files\DesignSpark\DesignSpark Mechanical 1.0\SabSatConverter.exe" -i "C:\Users\Desktop\MyObject.sab" -o "C:\Users\Desktop\MyObject.sat -v8"

C'est dans les vieilles marmites que l'on fait les meilleures soupes! :)
http://moiscript.weebly.com/uploads/3/9/3/8/3938813/bingo.3dm here in 3dm as the .sat was now good! :)

EDITED: 4 Jan by PILOU

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