Free renderers?
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
82.6 In reply to 82.5 

Is Gelato can run without Nvidia Video Card (on Ati Radeon for example)?
If install on ati what append? Nothing, Crash, run but with less speed....?
Sorry for this trivial question but I am not very technic about video cards :)

ps I have seen you have used the blade sword of Zbrush for your test :)

EDITED: 16 Oct 2006 by PILOU

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 From:  jbshorty
82.7 

Bill, i didn't know that Gelato supported NURBS. You really made my day by informing me of this, as i'd been looking for a NURBS alternative to McNeel's Flamingo engine ... If you ever write the 3DM importer, you got a friend for life (or until i forget who wrote it)... Now i'm off to assault my IT guru that built my home workstation with an ATI card (while he built my "twin" office workstation with NVIDIA)... ARRRGGGGHHHH....

EDIT... My office workstation has ATI. So i installed Gelato, and nothing happens. will have to try this at home, on the NVIDIA machine... Is Gelato only for use with Max & Maya? I want to use as a free-standing renderer, but i don't have either of those programs. If i have to use an OBJ importer, that means i will be importing mesh, not NURBS? Maybe Gelato can only read Max/Maya NURBS?... this morning is very bumpy so far :)

EDITED: 16 Oct 2006 by JBSHORTY

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 From:  bill (BILLROBERTSON42)
82.8 

Nvidia's renderer runs on their cards only (much of actually runs on the card too) Which is kind of neat if you think about it.

It runs as a stand alone renderer. They do have Maya and Max plug ins for it.

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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
82.9 In reply to 82.8 
Damned, just I have an Ati so... :)
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 From:  jbshorty
82.10 
without direct 3DM import, is there another format i can use to import a nurbs object to Gelato? maybe IGES?
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
82.11 In reply to 82.10 
Geometry Support by Gelato :)
• NURBS, bicubic, and bilinear patches
• Polygon meshes
• Subdivision surfaces
• Curves (hair)
• Wide curves (feathers and ribbons)
• Particles
• Procedural geometry plug-ins
• Arbitrary user-specified vertex variables
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 From:  jbshorty
82.12 
i see that. but there are different implementations of NURBS. So it doesn't mean that Gelato can import 3DM's OpenNurbs. Maybe Gelato only supports nurbs from Max/Maya with the direct plug-ins? Or maybe it also supports IGES nurbs?... I think i will have to just try it myself when i have a chance... Looks like a nice renderer though. With real displacement on pixel level, independent of surface topology!!! :)
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 From:  colibrica
82.13 
Moi > Rhino > Maxwell~render .....its the BEST !
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
82.14 In reply to 82.13 
< is the best
but maybe not free ? :)
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 From:  jbshorty
82.15 
not free, but quite the "bargain" at just under $1000 USD ;)
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 From:  Michael T. (MICTU_UTCIM)
82.16 
Hi to all!

As far as a free rendering software you can download the Kerkythea Rendering System. From MoI you will need to export a .obj file in order to pull it up in Kerkythea. I have just recently started working with it, and there are a lot of learning curves on my part. Still, I am able to run both MoI and Kerkythea on my 512Mb U3 Smart Drive (stick).

I'll try to keep everyone posted as I discover (or attempt to) any new tricks or tips for both MoI and Kerkythea.

Michael
Michael Tuttle a.k.a. mictu www.coroflot.com/fish317537
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 From:  Michael T. (MICTU_UTCIM)
82.17 
Hi to all again!

Here is a JPEG from a rendering I did in Kerkythea from a MoI object export. I'm still learning so be kind please.
Michael Tuttle a.k.a. mictu www.coroflot.com/fish317537

EDITED: 4 Nov 2010 by MICTU_UTCIM

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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
82.18 In reply to 82.17 
Art sculpting research indeed :)
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 From:  sk2k
82.19 
Hi,

exported from MoI, imported into Blender and rendered with Indigo. It's still noisy after 2 hours of rendering. Indigo rocks. :)

MfG
sk2k
Attachments:

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 From:  Micha
82.20 In reply to 82.7 
@jbshorty: Flamingo dosn't support NURBS, it render polygon meshes only. A good alternative is Vray for Rhino (www.asgvis.com) - an universal modern engine full integrated in Rhino (not for free). Vray can render NURBS, but VfR dosn't support it now.

The only NURBS render engines for Rhino ise Rhinoman+Renderman renderer. Rhinoman is a free plugin for several engines - AIR (not free) or 3Delight (free).

-Micha
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 From:  JTB
82.21 In reply to 82.13 
Maxwell is the best but if you have Rhino why bother with MOI?
Just curious, I have no modeling skills, just architectural drawings with Revit and AutoCAD so I need something more for misc models like deco... If you own Rhino what is that you don't find there?
I am asking this because Rhino is cheap and was thinking of buying it but now I will stay with MOI to see how it will go.
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
82.22 In reply to 82.21 

> Rhino is cheap
:) for an industry or a professional yes, for an individual maybe not :D

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 From:  jbshorty
82.23 In reply to 82.21 
Sorry this is very off topic from the thread, but to answer your question - there is really nothing in Moi that Rhino can't do, except for the n-gon meshing and shelling function. So i use it just for that alone. and it will probably be worth it's price as an add-on utility for many Rhino users. I guess we could break down the Rhino vs. Moi issue to a few simple arguments:

TOOLSET
No comparison. Rhino 4 and Moi are in 2 seperate classes. Rhino is quite obviously the winner...

INTERFACE
Many people seem to love the Moi interface. Whereas, the default Rhino interface can feel a bit intimidating to people who are new to Nurbs modeling. This seems to be where Moi is gaining support. It's very easy to grab it and go. The trick to Rhino is creating your own interface and custom tools (by plug-ins, scripts, or macros). I have recently done this, and now it feels very slick. My work environment is completely submersive. I can work with 100% of my monitor assigned to the grid, and pop-up any of my custom tool palettes (directly under my mouse) with a simple click of a hotkey. So the argument of Rhino having a dinosaur UI is a little bogus, that's the opinion of people who've never explored it's full potential for customization. Also, I have my doubts that Moi's "hands-off" UI will be able to grow along with it's toolbox. IMO the advantage goes to Rhino, although i will probably be stoned to death for saying that in this forum... :)

CONCEPT SKETCHING
For some reason, everybody has overlooked the fact that Rhino does (in fact) have a freeform curve sketching tool. It also has 2 styles of calculators for numerical input. But Moi doesn't require to have have one hand on the keyboard to move objects along the Z-axis. The advantage goes to Moi...

COMPLEX OBJECTS
As it was intended, Moi is very nice for modeling concepts. But it doesn't have the tools to develop complex forms. I'm referring to assemblies of many objects, and also of single complex forms. Advantage to Rhino.

So i guess it depends on what you're modeling. If it's just props for architectural renderings, then Moi is perfectly well-suited. But if you are modeling complex shapes, I would go with Rhino.

jonah
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 From:  Michael Gibson
82.24 In reply to 82.23 
Hi Jonah, I'm glad that you're such a dedicated fan of Rhino. I'm still very proud of creating Rhino and I am glad that it has stood the test of time and become useful to so many people.

It's very interesting to me to see you take my older work as an argument against my newer work! :)

But I can understand that because MoI is definitely focused on different things than Rhino. It's certainly true that there are many advanced tools in Rhino that can be very useful for a variety of complex modeling tasks. I would encourage people to download the Rhino demo and give it a try for themselves.

MoI is a lot more about reducing the learning curve, making it simple to do simple things, and enabling a fast sketching workflow, especially with a pen tablet.

As you mention, there are actually a couple of advanced capabilities in MoI that Rhino does not have (N-gon meshing and shelling). But you seem to have missed out on a larger number of more simple things.

Simple things are the area where MoI really shines. You seem to be more interested in major feature lists, but a lot of people are much more affected by how the simple things function.

A partial list of some simple things:

- Drawing a horizontal or vertical line doesn't require touching the keyboard.

- It's possible to easily draw a square with the rectangle tools.

- It's possible to easily draw a cube with the box tools.

- Object snaps are enabled during dragging, so for instance if you want to snap 2 lines together at their ends you can do it just by dragging one, you don't have to use a different tool.

- It's possible to switch between the top and front view with a single click.

- You can optionally select pieces to keep inside of Trim rather than only which pieces to discard.

- There is never an extra dialog or menu that pops up when you do a selection, instead you get a preview glow around the object that will be selected if you click.

- When you do a window selection, there is a preview glow around objects that will be selected by the window.

- When you do an object snap, all snaps that were active are listed instead of only one. Also they are appear in translucent text so they don't obscure your scene.

- Viewport manipulation panel at the bottom of a viewport makes it possible to navigate with a pen tablet, with no keyboard or right click usage.

- Construction lines gives a powerful way to get tangent/perpendicular extensions, in-between points, mirrored points, elevator-mode type z elevation, and more all in a single tool which reduces the number of tools and modes needed.

- Extremely fast meshing for display makes it feasible to work full time in a shaded view.

- Command options are shown in a dedicated area on the side pane, so there are never dialog boxes that pop up and obscure your workspace.


This is only a partial list. To you some of these features may not be important, like you may not care if there are 5 different modes to do what construction lines do, or that there are 4 different fillet tools instead of one fillet tool, since you don't seem to mind complexity and you are willing to spend the time to learn everything and make your own custom UI to handle it. However quite an awful lot of people (I would have to say the vast majority) are not like that. So that might help to explain your confusion about why people are liking MoI.


> Also, I have my doubts that Moi's "hands-off" UI will be able to grow along with it's toolbox.

Well, I'm pretty sure you're wrong about this. I spent a year of time planning and implementing the current UI through several iterations, and it is designed with expansion and future progress in mind. I will be able to add quite a number of additional palettes to the side pane (for example, "Dimension", "Render", "Analyze"), and these will have a very minimal impact to the overall complexity since they will start out collapsed.


Anyway I think your recommendations are correct - if you have complex surfacing needs then you probably need Rhino. Of course that doesn't mean you can't use MoI as well if you want to, it works very well to use MoI and Rhino in conjunction with each other.

I hope that my explanation above might shed some light on why some people are enjoying MoI. I think in general MoI is not always very useful to advanced Rhino users, because advanced Rhino users have already spent the time to become comfortable with the Rhino workflow and they don't really need the simplified workflow as much.

- Michael
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 From:  jbshorty
82.25 In reply to 82.24 

Hi Michael,

i hope you don't think i was knocking Moi in any way. It's an impressive program, and very stable for such an early beta. And i am really happy that it has sparked new interest for people to learn Nurbs modeling, despite the common misconception that SDS can model anything under the sun... As you mentioned, there are a few "simple" (but not so simple to implement) features which give Moi an advantage over Rhino, and most notable to me is the consolidation of similar tools such as fillet, blend, etc. Pre-selection highlighting is another one. And believe me, the requests have been numerous on the Rhino forums. And i have been one of the people asking for it... :)

I hope you prove me wrong about the UI limitations that i predicted. But i will explain where my thinking comes from. No use of left hand means more collapsed pallettes onscreen. As i know from my own Rhino experience, a typical modeling workflow requires that you use a particular function just a few times, then you might pick a tool in an unrelated palette, then you pick a tool from another unrelated palette, and so on... Constantly scrolling through tabbed palettes drives me crazy. Of course, it's easy to overcome by using hotkeys to open palettes (as i've set up for Rhino) but that kind of defeats the one-handed approach of Moi. But then again, i'm sure you have some majic tricks up your sleeve...

jonah

EDITED: 4 Dec 2006 by JBSHORTY

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