Opinion about some good and robust Polygonal-SDS modeler under 200$
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 From:  mkdm
8090.41 In reply to 8090.40 
Hi Pilou,

No problem for me, because I don't like Zbrush and its workflow. :)

I suppose that this sentence may be seem a blasphemy...but I never liked ZBrush UI and its philosophy!

Instead I really appreciate 3DCoat and its voxels.

> After seen Rockect i am affraid of course by NVil! :) But It's because I am fan of SketchUp & Moi!

Rocket3F is a promising product but NVIL well customized it's fast and easy as Rocket, but with much, much more tools.

Ciao !

- Marco (mkdm)

EDITED: 20 Sep 2016 by MKDM

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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
8090.42 In reply to 8090.41 
Yes but with some menus! Or some Shortcuts to memorise! Prefect for young brains! :)
Rockets where you have all in one glance has another philosophy!
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 From:  mkdm
8090.43 In reply to 8090.42 
Pilou I agree with you regarding the headaches caused by shortcuts...

But i much prefer to spend some times to customize a powerful app like NVIL, as I did in Moi, instead have a fraction of the available tools...

But clearly this is a very personal opinion. :)

P.S.
3DCoat 9 minutes assembly and rendering. Very rough but ...9 minutes. From a model roughly downloaded from GrabCad library.

Robocop movie enemy.

http://take.ms/1TTjK

http://take.ms/T3cvx

Ciao.

- Marco (mkdm)

EDITED: 20 Sep 2016 by MKDM

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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
8090.44 In reply to 8090.43 
@Marco
And don't forget that Rocket is very sweet to use with a Pen Graphic or on tablett or screen touch!
No menu to open! ;)
Always other philosophy - another concept!
Maybe not for Pro (who is always speedy) but for hobbyist or amateur or oldies or very youngs! ;)

PS I am happy few of 3D Coat : If i had good memory, it's me who has made the French UI for Andrew and thousand of Tooltips! :D
(look at the Thanks inside the prog)
I have not yet the last one (4.7) so tell me if it's always the case!
Because system online of translations "Participate" seems dispeared!

EDITED: 20 Sep 2016 by PILOU

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 From:  mkdm
8090.45 In reply to 8090.44 
Hi Pilou,

I'm happy to know that you are in the About window of 3DCoat!
Wow... that's great!

Yes, your name is present also in the newest version 4.7.

Here the link to my screen cap : http://take.ms/5QOGx

I'm an enthusiast user of 3DCoat!

> And don't forget that Rocket is very sweet to use with a Pen Graphic or on tablet or screen touch!

Sure! This feature is certainly remarkable.
Also Moi has this great facility.

But consider these two things :

1) I always do 3D modelling, and gfx in general, with my laptop, having the mouse or Wacom pen in the right hand
and ALWAYS the left hand above the keyboard, because in this way i can quickly use UI buttons and shortcuts.

2) I'm customizing NVIL in order to diminish the use of the menus to the minimum.

Ciao and have a nice day.

- Marco (mkdm)
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
8090.46 In reply to 8090.45 
@Marco
Thanks for the infos! :)

When you have a tablette in one hand, Pen in other hand, you can't have mouse in third hand! :D

Ask to Michael : i believe he made shows of Moi3D on a dentist's chair! :)
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 From:  mkdm
8090.47 In reply to 8090.46 
> Ask to Michael : i believe he made shows of Moi3D on a dentist's chair! :)

Aaaaahhhhhh Pilou, LOL :):)

P.S. In fact i don't use tablet but laptop.

Ciao!

- Marco (mkdm)
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
8090.48 In reply to 8090.47 
That was something like that but i don't refind it! (but with a dentis't chair! )
(siggraph ?) Maybe Michael has always this document in its archives? :)

EDITED: 20 Sep 2016 by PILOU

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 From:  Michael Gibson
8090.49 In reply to 8090.37 
Hi Marco, that's great that you were able to make a decision, now you can just dig in and use it instead of testing everything!

@Pilou - sorry I don't remember that picture.

- Michael
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
8090.50 In reply to 8090.49 
@Michael
But have you made that or not ?
It was for show the the comfort and ergonomy of the use of Moi!
I can't have imagined that! :)

This is very relaxing!

EDITED: 20 Sep 2016 by PILOU

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 From:  Michael Gibson
8090.51 In reply to 8090.50 
Hi Pilou, I didn't make that one, it was made by Isaiah Coberly

- Michael
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 From:  mkdm
8090.52 In reply to 8090.49 
Hi Michael,

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, now i can start working with NVIL and I think that it will be a good companion for Moi (and Rhino too).

I will use it almost for specific SDS modeling, like organic/blobby objects (with or without symmetry), or exotic geometrical objects.
Instead, i will continue to use Moi+Rhino for ALL other object types : Mechanical/Architectural and all HardSurfaces in general.

I'm also testing a particular workflow, to use when I need to explicitly transform a Low-Poly/Low-SDS obj into a Nurbs object.
For this particular case i'm testing two alternatives, one requires Rhino V6 WIP while the other one requires Moi+Max's ImportObj and SubDiv scripts.

Obviously the two strategies produce different results.

Strategy 1.
------------
I will use it mainly when the Low-Poly/Low-SDS obj contains Ngons :

1.A) Import the obj into Rhino V6 WIP

1.B) Run the experimental SubDFromMesh command onto the imported obj.
I use in this case the lowest PatchDensity value, that is two, in order to minimize the number of resulting Nurbs patches.
I'm testing SubDFromMesh with these parameters :
Creases=NO Output=Nurbs PatchDensity=2 ClampKnots=Yes SetPatchName=NO

1.C) Joining the resulting Nurbs patches to obtain a joined surfaces

Strategy 2.
------------
I will use it mainly when the Low-Poly/Low-SDS obj contains only Quad+Tris :

1.A) Import the obj into Moi with Max's ImportObj script

1.B) Run the SubDiv script onto the imported obj


Here's two links of a simple test i made :

The zipped .3dm file : http://take.ms/7CIiP

The Moi's screen cap : http://take.ms/1lllH

What do you think about the experimental SubDFromMesh Rhino V6 command ?
Do you think that it will have a future ?

Thanks for all and have a nice day!

- Marco (mdkm)
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
8090.53 In reply to 8090.51 
<< it was made by Isaiah Coberly
Sure!

It was the second part of my post! :)

The image that i had seen was a still image!
I have refound French messages where I speek about that! (Nov 2009)
But alas i did'nt link the image! Seems remember that was inside an article!

So you do that before this date! :)
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 From:  PaQ
8090.54 In reply to 8090.52 
You shouldn't care that much about ngones or tris, just add a subdivision level to your mesh before import/conversion.
By doing that, you will always end up with a full quad mesh.

What's important, is to 'hide' as much as you can any vertex that is not connected with 4 edges.
The surface quality in those 'poles' area will always be a problem (surface continuity problem, or pinch).
By hiding, I mean avoid to place those vertex where there is a big curvature change.

I have to say that MAX SubDiv script is doing an amazing job in that area, way better than anything I have seen so far.
It's very obvious in your example, the middle area where 12 edges are connected to one vertex looks much better (I would even say perfect) with Max's script than Rhino result.

The only thing missing in this script, is a surface simplification pass, to reduces the total number of patches.
I still can't believe this is "just' a script Oo

EDITED: 20 Sep 2016 by PAQ

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 From:  Michael Gibson
8090.55 In reply to 8090.52 
Hi Marco,

> What do you think about the experimental SubDFromMesh Rhino V6 command ?
> Do you think that it will have a future ?

I don't really know anything about it, sorry.

- Michael
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 From:  mkdm
8090.56 In reply to 8090.54 
Hi PaQ,

And thank you very much for your reply!

I have moved this discussion into the "Real case OBJ to Nurbs!" topic,
because I think it's a better place, and I have answered in the post http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=8095.17

Have a nice day,

- Marco (mkdm)
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 From:  mkdm
8090.57 In reply to 8090.55 
Hi Michael,

> I don't really know anything about it, sorry.

Thanks a lot for your frankness :)

Evidently in McNeel they want to be very careful with experimental commands...

Nice day,

- Marco (mkdm)
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 From:  mkdm
8090.58 
Hi everyone,

I'm using and testing latest version of NVIL and...i'm really impressed.
It's totally focused on Poly/SDS modelling and Uving (but I haven't tried yet this feature...I much prefer to use 3DCoat for this),
and it has tons of very, very powerful features.

Furthermore, its tools for Reverse SubDiv and NGon optimization are perfect for Max's SubDiv scripts.

Using it, I realize that's maybe the only modeler comparable to Moi regarding the workflow, versatility and power of its tools.

And all for less then 80 USD !!

If you are searching a very good Poly/SDS modeler I can recommend NVIL, without doubts.

Nice day!

- Marco (mkdm)
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 From:  Mark (MARKG)
8090.59 In reply to 8090.58 
Still no Mac version of NVIL, though?

I check the site every once in a while, but it is so disorganized I can never be sure...
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 From:  mkdm
8090.60 In reply to 8090.59 
Hi Mark,

> I check the site every once in a while, but it is so disorganized I can never be sure...

I agree with you!
NVIL's web site does not do justice to the quality of that software that IMHO is awesone,
although its Forum is much better, even if it's not comparable with Moi's forum.

Above all is the poor attendance of Istonia (NVIL software developer) that it hurts a little..

Anyway, in NVIL's forum there are plenty of materials and some power users seem to be very active.

Nice day,

- Marco (mkdm)
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