Problems with sketching and extruding.

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 From:  Bob (APTIVABOY)
7692.1 
Hi,

I'm having a problem with a model All of a sudden, I can't sketch on a surface. I can highlight and activate it, but all sketches and solids now emanate from inside the part. No sketching or extruding can occur on the exterior of the part. Quite frankly, this just suddenly happened out of the blue two days ago and nothing I do seems to be able to fix it - going through the various options, snaps, etc. Oddly enough, this doesn't affect any other model in MOI, just this one.

Let's say I want to extrude a box or solid, like an electrical box from the outside of the part, which is a gun tub for a destroyer model. I cannot do so from the exterior surface, even after activating or selecting said surface. However, it apparently can be done from the interior of the part. Naturally, this is sort of annoying as I need to visualize and measure the parts from the outside to replicate the part from the blueprints and photos.

Any ideas on what could be causing this? I'd attach the file but everytime I try, the following error message occurs:

"Server Error
404 - File or directory not found.
The resource you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable."

I've edited the model to get it under the 23.2 MB limit the upload page mentions, but so far no go, so I don't think its a file size issue.

Many thanks for any pointers or ideas.

Bob
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 From:  bemfarmer
7692.2 In reply to 7692.1 
Hi Bob,

Do you have Windows 7 or Mac?

- Brian
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 From:  Bob (APTIVABOY)
7692.3 In reply to 7692.2 
Good morning,

I have Windows 8, 64 bit, fully updated.
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 From:  Michael Gibson
7692.4 In reply to 7692.1 
Hi Bob - if it only happens with one particular model and you see very different behavior with just a plain box for example, I'll probably need to be able to look at the file in order to have any idea what's going on.

With a larger file like that you will probably need to use a file sharing service like Dropbox or Windows OneDrive (https://onedrive.live.com), where you can upload the file to that service which can store larger files and then post just a shared link from there over here.

- Michael
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 From:  Bob (APTIVABOY)
7692.5 In reply to 7692.4 
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 From:  Michael Gibson
7692.6 In reply to 7692.5 
Hi Bob, thanks for posting the file.

But there are 215 solids and surfaces in that file and I don't know which one object in particular you're having the problem with. Could you point out which particular object does not behave properly and exactly what drawing tool you're using on it?

Here I've tested just drawing a rectangle on a couple of the big pieces and I can't seem to find any problem:



- Michael
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 From:  Bob (APTIVABOY)
7692.7 
Hi,

Thanks for the video. What you're able to do, I am not. I just attempted to draw rectangles as you did and it doesn't work.


Here are a couple of pics. Test #1 shows the surface I tried to sketch a rectangle on, the flat surface facing the viewer underneath the circular tub. Test #2 shows where the sketch actually shows up, inside the part and towards its other side. I'm at a loss as this literally just happened without any warning. Odd.







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 From:  Bob (APTIVABOY)
7692.8 
Here's another. I separated the tub. I selected the floor of the tub and attempted to sketch a rectangle on it. You can see where the program places it, far, far above it in elevation.




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 From:  Michael Gibson
7692.9 In reply to 7692.8 
Hi Bob,

re:
> You can see where the program places it, far, far above it in elevation.

That looks like it's going on the construction plane grid, at z=0 elevation, which is pretty far above your object.

That's what would happen if object snaps are disabled - please check your bottom toolbar, for object snap to be turned on it should be highlighted in orange, and also check if any individual types of snaps like "On srf" are turned off:





- Michael
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 From:  bemfarmer
7692.10 
There are a couple of tiny lines floating to the upper right.
After cleaning the monitor screen, they would not go away.
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 From:  Bob (APTIVABOY)
7692.11 
Hi again. My apologies for being a bother. Michael, thank you for your suggestions and help, but the haven't worked. I've checked the snaps and they are already as you've suggested having them. Nevertheless, I turned them on and off and readjusted them before changing back to your suggested settings, sort of like whacking a machine a few times in hopes that a few kicks and shoves would somehow fix the problem. Sadly, it didn't. I'm attaching two screen shots showing the same attempt at drawing a rectangle with the snaps specified.

Thank you again for any help.

Bob






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 From:  Michael Gibson
7692.12 In reply to 7692.11 
Hi Bob - are you doing the drawing in the 3D viewport or in one of the 2D top/front/right viewports?

The behavior of drawing on surfaces is different depending on which of these kinds of viewports you are in - when you're in the 3D viewport it's assumed that you are doing more freeform drawing and that you want drawn objects to conform to the plane you are snapping onto. When you're in a 2D viewport (top/front/right) it's assumed that you are focusing more on 2D drawing in that view and that you want objects to align to that view's plane rather than the snapped plane.

Does that explain the difference you're seeing?

Also the "On surface" object snap by default is not active in 2D views, because surfaces cover a large area of the screen and would prevent accurate 2D planar drawing when you're in a 2D viewport (see here for an explanation: http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=2267.2). You can adjust this by a setting in moi.ini under:
[Drawing Aids]
DisableOnSrfInOrtho=n


re:
> I'm attaching two screen shots showing the same attempt at drawing a rectangle with the snaps specified.

In that screenshot it looks like you're drawing in the Left viewport, so that is normal that you'd get viewport grid-plane aligned drawing behavior there.

If you take another look at the video above (http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=7692.6) you'll notice that when I'm drawing there I'm picking those points in the 3D view to get "align to object's plane" type behavior instead.

Hope this helps explain things.

- Michael
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 From:  bemfarmer
7692.13 In reply to 7692.11 
Hi Bob

I'll suggest setting up a new directory, and loading you dropbox file to it and testing.

Also try copying your existing file to a new directory and testing.

Is a bunch of your model hidden?

- Just my dumb thoughts.
- Brian

Changing the color of the two "flyspecks" also changed the color of some circle in the turret.
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 From:  Bob (APTIVABOY)
7692.14 In reply to 7692.13 
Hi Michael.

It happens no matter which window I'm sketching in, 2D or 3D. What is so odd is that it just happened out of the blue. It just started behaving like this for no apparent reason. I had changed no settings no snaps, nothing. Again, MOI works fine for my other models. Its just this one that is all messed up and behaving badly. "On Srf" or similar does not display when I attempt to sketch, as it did in your video. Something is clearly very messed up with this model. I just can't figure out what, or why its occurred. I literally saved the file a couple of days ago after working on it, and then it acted like this the next time I started the program.

Now, what is odd is that after physically dragging the model onto the origin, suddenly things start working, at least for a time (see screenshot). From the origin, the program or model suddenly start allowing me to sketch on the surface and make extrusions. I haven't yet checked to see if Boolean operations are possible, for example, or if other operations are possible from the new position. Earlier today I tried this and it worked - briefly, and only in one plane. Any ideas on why things seem to work better when the model is moved?

Ben, I don't know what specks you're referring to, but I cleaned up the workspace and deleted any extraneous stuff that I could see. Where are those little specks you're seeing? Also, I did already save the file under a new folder and directory, but no go. Thank you for the suggestions, though.

Bob
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Size: 1.2 MB, Downloaded: 14 times, Dimensions: 1920x1080px
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 From:  Michael Gibson
7692.15 In reply to 7692.14 
Hi Bob, well in your previous screenshot here: http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=7692.11 that definitely looked like you were clicking the points inside the "Left" viewport. Again, that's normal that you won't get an "On srf" snap in that view, as I tried to describe above.

In your new screenshot where you show it working ok, that looks like you are drawing in the 3D viewport there - and when you place the points in the 3D viewport that's when it should work.

I'm sorry but I can't repeat any unusual behavior with your model over here - but definitely some of the screenshots you have shown above the problem is that you were picking the points in the Front or Top views and in those views "on srf" snap will not be active by default which is normal behavior.

You should be able to repeat this with your model - load the model and then maximize the 3D view. Now draw a rectangle - you will see "on srf" work for the first point picked. If you then switch to maximize the Top view and try it, you won't get any "on srf" snap in that view because by default "on srf" is suppressed in any of the Top, Front, or Right views...

> Any ideas on why things seem to work better when the model is moved?

Well, if you move the model to the world origin, the grid planes for the Top, Front, or Right views will more closely coincide with the model and so when you draw on those view's grid planes it won't be so far away from your model.

- Michael
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