TpwUK,

"The corners at the front of the frame. Been there since the 1970's,"
I can not find any model with this corners can you show me?

"please refer to 92FS compact with Accessory Rail "
I also could not find model with "rails" like yours can you show me?

"The idea here is to reduce muzzle flip due to the excessive back end weight allowing the shooter to get back on target quicke"
I think make gun weight less on rear only make things worse in terms of muzzle flip. Because as I think weight compensate recoil, now all that energy will go to the hand and nothing changes.

Also do you think silicon will be reliable enough? I think grip must be solid enough to not allow gun to move in hand. But with silicon like material you will be not be able to fix gun in your hand especially after recoil because of nature of silicon like materials. And the thicker it will be the more problems we will have with fixation of hand and gun. Just notice you are going to consolidate silicon and grip with screws? It look very strange, because silicon is not solid, and all that screws will jib in your palm, Also it can not fix silicon and grip it is not a glue.
Also silicon like materials are not durable.

Hi Andrei, as requested ... http://www.beretta.com/en-us/92-compact-with-rail/#Photos

You don't come across as someone with a lot of shooting experience despite your previous claim of being a concept artist for REAL weapon design. As a shooter with many years of experience I can tell you with certainty that throwing weight to the front or to the middle helps to reduce muzzle flip, that's why you can purchase barrel weights. Also look at the differences between true target shooting pistols and 'practical' assault handguns. Target shooting pistols have longer barrels for two good reasons. One, a longer barrel tends to increase accuracy, and two, the extra weight being thrown forward alters the wrists position to be less effected by recoil and the weight to help reduce muzzle flip.

As mentioned before, this model IS concept and should be regarded as such. If you feel unhappy about the design that's fine, but please feel free to post your concept work that has been used in the manufacture of REAL firearms which should now be free of any NDA's since they are publicly available. I don't want to fight over something that is purely conceptual in design so either shut-up or put-up. If you can prove me wrong go right ahead and do so, but please do not make claims that to me are blatantly false.

Martin
(TpwUK)

I'm so tired from people that made some mediocre stuff and whant to hear only positive feedback...
You can not see differences between sharp corners and chamfered/filleted and have no idea how Picatinny rail looks like and start to fantasize about silicon on grip that fasten by bolts.

>> I'm so tired from people that made some mediocre stuff and whant to hear only positive feedback...<<

I'm more than happy to take constructive criticism ... It's you that seems to not be grasping this is concept work, not REAL like your still unseen masterpieces that have made it to construction.>> You can not see differences between sharp corners and chamfered/filleted <<

If you look more closely you will see that my renders do have a small fillet thanks, but feel free to argue your case :)>> and have no idea how Picatinny rail looks like <<

I have already said it's NOT the Picatinny Rail system, you then claim another falsehood with calling it the Picatini Rail ... Please follow this link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picatinny_rail it will help you more in your illustrious career as a REAL weapons conceptual designer :)

Now as stated before, please feel free to post your REAL designs of REAL pistols that can be verified as your designs or shut-up.

I don't normally let things like this bother me but in your case i am making an exception, over the past year or so i have read your posts and watched you change from a good meek and mild individual that gained respect in to someone who thinks they are a design guru and a modelling God. Whatever respect I had for you Andrei was long gone before i even started this thread. Please do yourself a favour, stop being the arrogant self righteous prig you have become and revert back to the nice polite guy that we all used to appreciate hearing from.

I will not reply to any more of your posts to this thread until you can actually prove your claim on being a REAL weapons designer, so come and prove me wrong, I don't mind :)

Martin
(TpwUK)

TpwUK, do you believe in what you are typing? :)

How can I prove? We work on government and I have no any right to share any work I made.

But I can share my working place that I had when I worked in office now I working at the same place but as freelancer.
As you can see it is MoI and NVi.
In the right under automatic pistol CEDR tens of my concepts one of them you can see under first monitor this is the only way I can share my works...

Wishing the gun is not "loaded" ! :)

I am not worried about the gun - The sub-machine gun looks like an AirSoft weapon, to be more honest I am more worried about that USB stick floating in front of the monitor and looking huge compared to the size of the gun :/

I am also seriously concerned that what-ever country Andrei is from that their MOD equivalent is actually approaching a freelance design studio to carry out a military contract. I admit things may have changed since my days of being associated with MOD weapons contracts, but in my experience the military would approach companies such as Beretta, Colt, S&W, Glock and others laying out what their requirements are and how many they will order for the successful applicant. Also AFAIK every firearm used by NATO forces, other than sniper rifles, are available from any decent gunsmith.

So, please Frenchy, don't feel scared, it's all fake,

Martin
(TpwUK)

Very impressive desk, mine is full of empty pistachio nuts and beer cans :O)

TpwUK, ahaha yes it is air gun let it be...))) Your fantasy have no limits...

But for them who are interesting it was real model of Russian Automatic Pistol - CEDR (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PP-91_KEDR).
Do not how to say it in English but it was pared down (sawn striker) and can not be used for shooting. We used it as reference in some cases.

TpwUK,
If you are thinking that I'm very proud that I made design for guns you are wrong, I do not like it very much and want to back to my robots and other sci-fi stuff...

All right guys, there's an awful lot of negativity on the forum here today - just a reminder that I will lock threads that seem like they are erupting into flame wars.

Andrei - there seems to be a recurring pattern of your participation in these kinds of negative threads. If you're not even using MoI anymore then I'm not sure why you are coming here on the forum at all... Is it just to get into arguments? If so then this is not really a good place for that.

- Michael

Michael,
"there seems to be a recurring pattern of your participation."
Yes because I prefer to tell people what I think, but looks like people on this site have inadecvate reaction on critics and start all this shit. They are so guru, and how can I make any remarks to them...
As I can see on this forum everybody prefer to say a lot of bullshit but stay polite to keep that paradisiacal atmosphere. Cool... do not going interfere you...
TpwUK you made really great gun!!! Silicon and picatini are awaysome! WTF...

Michael you can delete my account, I'm so f*cking tired from all that gurus ...

@ Michael ... My apologies for causing a ruckus :/

@ Andrei ... Your modelling skills are not in any doubt, but your ability to critique without being rude is really poor. All everyone seems to have done is to ask you to be polite, not change your opinions. Calling other peoples work "Mediocre" and trying to rubbish their posts is not really fair and it is uncalled for. I still enjoy seeing your work, that won't change, but I get really offended by what you type, all we are asking is that you rein it in a bit and stop insulting people. As requested before, please go back to being the nice guy you was when you first started posting here ;)

Martin
(TpwUK)

Hi Andrei - if your remarks are going to always cause an argument to break out then yes they are not welcome here.

I'm sure you can find another forum that is a better fit for speaking your mind and having the type of discussions that you want.

Trying to deal with arguments here in the forum really saps away a lot of my time and energy so I would appreciate it if you would not start them here.

Thanks, - Michael

Beat it then......

On a more positive note....really good work Martin!!
Can you share how you modeled that fading line near the muzzle?
A picture of the model, instead of a render would also help

Thanks Niko - The front part of the slide is one of the most awkward parts of the model. If i remember rightly it was achieved by Boolean Difference but it was awkward to achieve and is not 'physically correct' but it's still close enough for render purposes :)

Send me your e-mail in a private message and i will wetransfer the working model to you that has all of the construction and trim curves included ... Or you can wait until a render artist friend of mine has done his renders then it will go onto GrabCAD.

Martin
(TpwUK)

Full model now available from https://grabcad.com/library/beretta-92fs-9mm-2015-concept-1

Anyone wanting the working file please let me know as that one has all the curves :)

Very nice work Martin!
I'm not expert on weapon at all...so i can't say nothing about the real gun....
I'm speaking just about the modeling...and I like it
....if i can, just a thing...in my opionion (I repeat, i don't know details about guns or fire weapons) I'd smooth a little the edge where the edges ar too "hard" (so in the render light will do a very better effect on the edge).
But I'm speaking just about my 3d taste, not because i've a weapon knowledge :)
I like a lot this project, and as usual...it is always nice to see how powerful MOI is under the right hands :)

About the discussion....I know Martin and he helped me a LOT of times...he was always superkind with me...he used his times a lot of time to help me...and first of all...he tolds me about Moi the first time...i didn't know this little masterpiece...I know Moi thanks to Martin.
And in different ways, Andrei helped me a lot of times too with his fantastic tutorials (i used and appreciate them a big numbers of times).

I consider both of them resources for the forum and Moi community.
I hope that everything will be solved well and soon.
Personally, i think that via forum (or by text) can be easy to be misunderstood. and because of that...sometimes the things can degenerates.
I hope that all this can be solved peacefully.

Sorry for my bad english.

Please guys....I love this little community and i love Moi of course....i think that everyone, who more who less, can improve in a way or another this community...so in my opionion is always a bad things if someone leaves.

Different point of views are normal...

;)

Thanks for the reply and kind words Arian ...

>> I'm speaking just about the modeling...and I like it
....if i can, just a thing...in my opionion (I repeat, i don't know details about guns or fire weapons) I'd smooth a little the edge where the edges ar too "hard" (so in the render light will do a very better effect on the edge). <<

There are fillets already added to the model, they are small but are still visible on the render. Trying to create larger fillets was difficult because of the amount of booleans that were needed to add details. As far as i am aware the rule of thumb is for fillets to be applied after all boolean operations are complete so that's the approach i took. If i had done fillets and blends before and after booleans i think the model would have been far more problematic than it already was.

About the discussion ...>> Personally, i think that via forum (or by text) can be easy to be misunderstood. and because of that...sometimes the things can degenerates.
I hope that all this can be solved peacefully. <<

I agree whole heartedly with language barrier problems but to use the term 'mediocre' does not get added via something like google translate service, in order to have that word, you would need to add it in your native language, that's where the problem lies. I make allowances for mis translation but not insults, your critique is accurate, fair and most importantly polite. Rude comments are rude no matter what your native language.

So i guess a clash of personalties and over sensitivity comes into play on things like this along with bad days and bio-rythms if you believe in such things, but again this should not apply to almost every post made. I am sorry he left and would have been so much happier if he had just remained polite. It's done and gone and is better left in history. Lets just all move on and enjoy what the community has always been. A good polite community based on many opinions and an unbelievably great resource for help and answers.

Martin
(TpwUK)