Beretta M92FS Concept  1-20  21-31

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 From:  TpwUK
7633.1 
Modelled in MoI v3 - Thanks to BurrMan for helping to fix the pistol grips
Rendered with KeyShot v6 beta

Gallery image can be found here ... http://moi3d.com/gallery/images/Beretta-92FS-2015-Concept.4.jpg

Martin
(TpwUK)
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 From:  Michael Gibson
7633.2 In reply to 7633.1 
Looks really great Martin!

- Michael
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 From:  TpwUK
7633.3 In reply to 7633.2 
Thanks Michael :) - Quick request for v4 if you can squeeze it in ... Any chance that extrude to point can be given a distance ? Not having this ability at present prevented me from being able to model the knurling pattern on the grips.

Martin
(TpwUK)
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 From:  Michael Gibson
7633.4 In reply to 7633.3 
Hi Martin, yes that would make sense for extrude to point to take a distance, unless "Unlock direction" is picked. That would definitely be something I can add for v4.

In the meantime, you can get a particular distance by clicking "Unlock direction", then typing in your desired distance and hit enter, which will trigger a distance constraint, then drag out a construction line, the end of the construction line will be at that distance and you will have a snap point there to snap onto.

- Michael
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 From:  BurrMan
7633.5 In reply to 7633.3 
No worries Martin... looks like a nice result....

""""""""""Any chance that extrude to point can be given a distance ?"""""""""""""""""""

Was just using that today. An option to extrude along "normal" would be a big time saver against "set direction". Unlocking is cool, but still leaves me having to manually set normal.
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 From:  Vojtisek
7633.6 In reply to 7633.1 
Very nice clean model!

Only thing I would add are fillets on the plastic grip parts, so it's not hurting the hand when shooting.
But overall, good job :)


Vojtěch
https://twitter.com/VojtechLacina
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 From:  TpwUK
7633.7 
BurrMan wrote ...

>> Was just using that today. An option to extrude along "normal" would be a big time saver against "set direction". Unlocking is cool, but still leaves me having to manually set normal. <<

Oh yeah, that sounds even better, extrude to point by a given distance using the Normal as a direction to me would be perfect so a big +1 from me

Vojtěch wrote ....>> Very nice clean model!

Only thing I would add are fillets on the plastic grip parts, so it's not hurting the hand when shooting.
But overall, good job :) <<

Many thanks Vojtěch (luv your weapon too!) .... My grips are supposed to be a rubber silicon type of material so would mould a little to the hands contour. I should have listed what the concept parts are and why. My mistake, lesson learnt :)

@Michael - Many thanks, I tried something like what you described but after doing about one third of the knurling pattern i noticed i had lost uniformity across the patterned area because of the slight curvature involved with the surface. A problem that would be well worthy of our forum scripting champions :)

Thanks to all for taking the time to look and comment, it's appreciated :)

Martin
(TpwUK)
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 From:  Andrei Samardac
7633.8 In reply to 7633.7 
Hi TpwUK,
I specialized on concept design of real pistols and what I can say,



Also as I understood it is concept but it is practically identical to original, what is your innovation or new ideas?

What about modeling, it modeled well for concept but edges are very sharp it has to be filleted. I understood that it is very hard to make that cosmetic fillets in MoI but try to use some types of shaders to make virtual fillet for example you can make it in KeyShot. But best result is when edges are filleted in 3D.
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 From:  TpwUK
7633.9 In reply to 7633.8 
Hi Andrei - Thanks for the comment and queries, here goes ...

1. The corners at the front of the frame. Been there since the 1970's, they obviously don't cause holster issues otherwise the American police and many specialist (NATO) armed forces wouldn't be using the 92FS as their standard side arm.

2. Correct, it's not the Picatinny rail system, please refer to 92FS compact with Accessory Rail at beretta.com - The basic idea is from there and makes perfectly good sense to me as an arrestor system to help prevent or possibly eliminate creep.

3. and 4. Are combined pretty much. As mentioned earlier I should have mentioned the concept parts and why... The frame grip is thinner to reduce the amount of weight at the rear of the pistol. This reduces the magazine to a one on top of the other round load, again reducing the weight at the back of the gun. The idea here is to reduce muzzle flip due to the excessive back end weight allowing the shooter to get back on target quicker. The reduced flip should improve accuracy and hence require less ammunition. The grips are supposed to be a silicon rubber with a gel like filling so if you hold the grip tightly it will effectively take on the shape of your hand, kind of like the memory foam pillows and mattresses. The thinner rail grip allows a greater volume to the front of the grips to work with, dropping off in density to the rear where less grip is required.

Not commented on by you but to help others better understand the design ...

The trigger guard is actually significantly fatter at the front and the bottom, this puts more weight forward and to the middle of the weapon, again in an attempt to reduce the muzzle flip. The silicon gel beads are there to provide greater friction but with comfort in mind, they will squish and help take to the contours of your finger prints and the natural imperfections in the skin that can change on a day to day basis depending on ambient temperature, stress and other environmental/biological factors.

There is another change to the safety mechanism whereas the safety catch and the cut out on the slide are identical on both sides of the weapon so a lefty can use it straight out the box without having to field strip the gun first in order to swap the parts round. This reduces manufacturing costs and should allow a faster rate of production as both sides of the slide can now be milled to the same shape.

Please keep in mind this is just a concept and has not been designed as a manufacturing ready design. It's idea based so even though it is not physically accurate, the ideology is sound and is open to anyone to play with it ... Just remember you saw it here first should you ever see it in production with someone else's name to it - lol

Martin
(TpwUK)
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 From:  Andrei Samardac
7633.10 In reply to 7633.9 
TpwUK,

"The corners at the front of the frame. Been there since the 1970's,"
I can not find any model with this corners can you show me?

"please refer to 92FS compact with Accessory Rail "
I also could not find model with "rails" like yours can you show me?

"The idea here is to reduce muzzle flip due to the excessive back end weight allowing the shooter to get back on target quicke"
I think make gun weight less on rear only make things worse in terms of muzzle flip. Because as I think weight compensate recoil, now all that energy will go to the hand and nothing changes.

Also do you think silicon will be reliable enough? I think grip must be solid enough to not allow gun to move in hand. But with silicon like material you will be not be able to fix gun in your hand especially after recoil because of nature of silicon like materials. And the thicker it will be the more problems we will have with fixation of hand and gun. Just notice you are going to consolidate silicon and grip with screws? It look very strange, because silicon is not solid, and all that screws will jib in your palm, Also it can not fix silicon and grip it is not a glue.
Also silicon like materials are not durable.

EDITED: 26 Sep 2015 by ANDREI SAMARDAC

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 From:  TpwUK
7633.11 In reply to 7633.10 
Hi Andrei, as requested ... http://www.beretta.com/en-us/92-compact-with-rail/#Photos

You don't come across as someone with a lot of shooting experience despite your previous claim of being a concept artist for REAL weapon design. As a shooter with many years of experience I can tell you with certainty that throwing weight to the front or to the middle helps to reduce muzzle flip, that's why you can purchase barrel weights. Also look at the differences between true target shooting pistols and 'practical' assault handguns. Target shooting pistols have longer barrels for two good reasons. One, a longer barrel tends to increase accuracy, and two, the extra weight being thrown forward alters the wrists position to be less effected by recoil and the weight to help reduce muzzle flip.

As mentioned before, this model IS concept and should be regarded as such. If you feel unhappy about the design that's fine, but please feel free to post your concept work that has been used in the manufacture of REAL firearms which should now be free of any NDA's since they are publicly available. I don't want to fight over something that is purely conceptual in design so either shut-up or put-up. If you can prove me wrong go right ahead and do so, but please do not make claims that to me are blatantly false.

Martin
(TpwUK)
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 From:  Andrei Samardac
7633.12 In reply to 7633.11 
I'm so tired from people that made some mediocre stuff and whant to hear only positive feedback...
You can not see differences between sharp corners and chamfered/filleted and have no idea how Picatinny rail looks like and start to fantasize about silicon on grip that fasten by bolts.





EDITED: 26 Sep 2015 by ANDREI SAMARDAC

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 From:  TpwUK
7633.13 In reply to 7633.12 
>> I'm so tired from people that made some mediocre stuff and whant to hear only positive feedback...<<

I'm more than happy to take constructive criticism ... It's you that seems to not be grasping this is concept work, not REAL like your still unseen masterpieces that have made it to construction.>> You can not see differences between sharp corners and chamfered/filleted <<

If you look more closely you will see that my renders do have a small fillet thanks, but feel free to argue your case :)>> and have no idea how Picatinny rail looks like <<

I have already said it's NOT the Picatinny Rail system, you then claim another falsehood with calling it the Picatini Rail ... Please follow this link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picatinny_rail it will help you more in your illustrious career as a REAL weapons conceptual designer :)

Now as stated before, please feel free to post your REAL designs of REAL pistols that can be verified as your designs or shut-up.

I don't normally let things like this bother me but in your case i am making an exception, over the past year or so i have read your posts and watched you change from a good meek and mild individual that gained respect in to someone who thinks they are a design guru and a modelling God. Whatever respect I had for you Andrei was long gone before i even started this thread. Please do yourself a favour, stop being the arrogant self righteous prig you have become and revert back to the nice polite guy that we all used to appreciate hearing from.

I will not reply to any more of your posts to this thread until you can actually prove your claim on being a REAL weapons designer, so come and prove me wrong, I don't mind :)

Martin
(TpwUK)
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 From:  Andrei Samardac
7633.14 In reply to 7633.13 
TpwUK, do you believe in what you are typing? :)

How can I prove? We work on government and I have no any right to share any work I made.

But I can share my working place that I had when I worked in office now I working at the same place but as freelancer.
As you can see it is MoI and NVi.
In the right under automatic pistol CEDR tens of my concepts one of them you can see under first monitor this is the only way I can share my works...

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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
7633.15 
Wishing the gun is not "loaded" ! :)
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 From:  TpwUK
7633.16 In reply to 7633.15 
I am not worried about the gun - The sub-machine gun looks like an AirSoft weapon, to be more honest I am more worried about that USB stick floating in front of the monitor and looking huge compared to the size of the gun :/

I am also seriously concerned that what-ever country Andrei is from that their MOD equivalent is actually approaching a freelance design studio to carry out a military contract. I admit things may have changed since my days of being associated with MOD weapons contracts, but in my experience the military would approach companies such as Beretta, Colt, S&W, Glock and others laying out what their requirements are and how many they will order for the successful applicant. Also AFAIK every firearm used by NATO forces, other than sniper rifles, are available from any decent gunsmith.

So, please Frenchy, don't feel scared, it's all fake,

Martin
(TpwUK)
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 From:  PaQ
7633.17 
Very impressive desk, mine is full of empty pistachio nuts and beer cans :O)
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 From:  Andrei Samardac
7633.18 In reply to 7633.16 
TpwUK, ahaha yes it is air gun let it be...))) Your fantasy have no limits...

But for them who are interesting it was real model of Russian Automatic Pistol - CEDR (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PP-91_KEDR).
Do not how to say it in English but it was pared down (sawn striker) and can not be used for shooting. We used it as reference in some cases.
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 From:  Andrei Samardac
7633.19 In reply to 7633.16 
TpwUK,
If you are thinking that I'm very proud that I made design for guns you are wrong, I do not like it very much and want to back to my robots and other sci-fi stuff...
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 From:  Michael Gibson
7633.20 
All right guys, there's an awful lot of negativity on the forum here today - just a reminder that I will lock threads that seem like they are erupting into flame wars.

Andrei - there seems to be a recurring pattern of your participation in these kinds of negative threads. If you're not even using MoI anymore then I'm not sure why you are coming here on the forum at all... Is it just to get into arguments? If so then this is not really a good place for that.

- Michael
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