ZBrush has now a cool "Zmodeler" ;) + some tools ArrayMesh, NanoMesh, QMesh : you can make some things ;)

Every complex model is made from a lot od smaller parts.

Zbrush is superb for quick sketch what you have in head, like taking a simple pen and drawing a concept. Then it depends what you need. If game model or clean model for render, you need to retopo it.

If it is just for static render or design, you can go with decimated geo from Zbrush and polypaint it or use some box uv mapping and then paint it in some other program.

Zb is little bit hard to get at the beginning, MoI is super fast to learn, have very simple ui and powerfull tools.

Similar to Zbrush is Mudbox or 3dcoat - they have more 3d program UI, but ZB have a lot more abilities and most designers use Zb. In big productions Zb is standard.

So, complex models are realy not software dependent - it's about deconstruction what you model, think about separation to smaller and smaller parts and then detailing them.
Start from big shapes and going to smallest one.

I saw people are doing product designs in both - zbrush, nurbs modelers and even polymodelers. Software is secondary, idea is most important :)


Vojtěch

Hi Gill,

re:
> May I ask a question? What kind of ("state-of-the-art") workflow is the best for this kind of object:

Often times vehicles land in a sort of gray area between organic and mechanical, and that makes it not quite so fixed that one specific modeling technology is the automatic best fit for that. You would probably want to use whatever feels most comfortable for you.

The model you show there is tremendously detailed and complex, and so it will involve a very substantial amount of work to make it, no matter what tool you are using.

MoI itself is focused on the idea of making it super quick, fluid, and easy to do simple mechanical shapes. Your model there is by no means a simple mechanical shape and so it's not a direct fit for the core idea behind MoI but it still would be possible to pursue it with MoI if you were to stick with the project for an extended period of time.

- Michael

Something to consider to speed up modeling in MoI is to avoid filleting every single hard edge and use a rounder edge shader in your 3d application.
What I would called 'cosmetic' fillets (very small radius) can easily be handle that way.

It simplify models a lot, and help for further editing.
Depending of your render engine, it's a method that can even work for normal map baking.

When looking at those spaceship models (really amazing job), to get this amount of complexity, we probably need a better sub-object management (groups).

A really amazing concept are Shutline in Rhino :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_5oO9ehmoo

The workflow is super cool, non destructive and could help a lot to create those SF paneling details.
But it's some sort of 'post meshing' effect, and seems to create easily lots of nasty shading glitches too :(
I can only dream about a enhanced version of this concept in MoI, but I'm affraid it's probably 'too specialized' to fit in MoI toolset.

Hi PaQ,

> but I'm affraid it's probably 'too specialized' to fit in MoI toolset.

Yes, kind of... But it also fits in well with the overall strategy of "make things happen using 2D curves" which does give a lot of weight on the positive side of working on it.

That existing one in Rhino does indeed work just on the mesh output and not directly on the real NURBS model, and it can tend to get confused if there's any kind of irregularity or mixture of large and small polygons right in that particular area.

If I were to try it in MoI I guess I'd probably be more likely to try making real NURBS geometry with it rather than only trying to modify things at meshing time... That would generate heavy real geometry but also would be likely to be more robust and not generate glitchy results as much either though. Maybe at some point with a deeper history mechanism you could temporarily turn off that step in the history and let the model recalculate without those in it and avoid the heavy geometry problem that way.

There are still other areas for 2D curves interaction with solids that will likely take priority over this though, like "depth limited" booleans with 2D curves.

- Michael

Hi Michael,

Well that's really nice to ear.
I got a nearly working solution in modo, using curves to drive shading.



But Modo can't read 3d curves (.dxf splines option are just empty file for modo), so I had to rebuild splines in modo using .dxf polylines as reference ... not very handy for the moment, but the concept is cool :)

Just want to share, how ended my weapon model in final game quality. Have to say, Moi will definitely stay in my pipeline, love it!
I was affraid litle bit, how the translated nurbs to poly model will behave when baking Normal and other maps, but everything war fine.

Heres link https://www.artstation.com/artwork/scifi-assault-rifle


Vojtěch

Lovely result Vojtěch, what tool did you to materialise it with, Marmoset or Substance ?

Martin
(TpwUK)

Thanks! I used Substance Painter for texturing and Marmoset is just for visualising purpose

Vojtěch

Thanks for sharing the end result, looks great. So for the low poly you were saying you retopologised the high poly obj exported from MOI in Maya?

My workflow - highpoly moi3d + fusion360, then uv mapping + lowpoly in Maya, then Substance Painter for texturing.

Not sure if anybody is interested, but I'd like to give my models for this community to take a look, maybe somebody can point me out some mistakes or it will help another way.
But please keep it just for yourself, not to spread it to another persons outside this forum. 3dm + fbx UV mapped lowpoly

www.b-east.cz/work/weapon_moi3d.zip

Vojtěch

Wow neat to see how you built it up out of distinct components, definitely makes MOI chug a bit with that much going on! V neat UV's as well lot of practice must have gone into getting that good.

Probably a stupid question but is the low poly done using the quad draw tool in Maya?

Thanks

Thanks overthere!

In this case I didn't used quad draw, because I needed precise shapes. Star was Moi3D obj export in reference layer + box modeling and than cutting, slicing etc. I'm using referencing layers a lot in cases similar to these.

Quad draw tool is used mostly in organic shapes or in hardsurface, where precision not so crucial. For example human (alien) endoskeletons etc, where are lot of steps between each layer of geometry, bevels, chafers etc. I found out that good lines (in this case) makes the lowpoly better to fit to highpoly than trying to behave "organic".

Think little bit like CNC machine - what do you need? Weapon. Weapon is a precise result of technical drawing or CAD software. And box modeling is like CNC cutting little bit:) - you can keep lines straight without so much point moving pain.


Vojtěch

Hi Vojtěch, thanks for sharing your final game result - it turned out great!

I'm really glad that MoI will be a part of your pipeline now!

- Michael

Just got round to downloading and looking at the model. Colour me impressed, that's some seriously good clean modelling Vojtisek , thanks for sharing this :)

Martin
(TpwUK)

The file is no longer available? Can some share a copy?

Hi, the link is still working :)
http://www.b-east.cz/work/weapon_moi3d.zip
.

Outstanding job mate!!!
Really love it!

Thanks a lot :). Now working on another stuff, where Moi (and Fusion360) were involved.

Hi,

I'd like to share my current work in progress, now little bit different from previous weapon - augmented rabbit.

Mix of MoI3D, Fusion 360, Maya and Zbrush work. I was going around for few weeks, but now I have idea about environment for this little one, so I hope I will get to final image soon :)









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