MoI suitable for vehicle designs? Closed
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 From:  chippwalters
7275.81 
Hi Ron,

I doubt the Toons shader in Keyshot would work very well. Typically toon shaders work in two ways:
  1. They create an HBO (heavy black outline) around the silhouette of an object. This is done by calculating the surface normal's vector pointing away from the camera and this technique can sometimes can create unwanted artifacts, especially where they are not wanted.
  2. It creates a lighter line at the end of parts in where the vector is pointing towards the camera.

So, this means toon shaders won't like MoI's isocurves and they would not be shown, unless the model was broken up significantly, in which case other rendering artifacts will be present. And, as we all know, Keyshot won't allow you to even change vertex smoothing parameters.

Sidebar: I did manage to render the BiCar as NURBs in Keyshot. While a bit slower, the resolution is amazing!

SketchUp is without peer when it comes to creating a 'sketchy' render. And, for designers, many times it's really important to communicate ***This IS NOT a final design!!!*** This used to be done using marker renders and pencil sketches. These type of sketches do well in communicating a concept without a note of finality. Consider this SketchUp generated image:




It communicates a number of things in a sketch. Human scale. Transparent view into something already solid. Non final development of the product. Creating something like this in SketchUp is very easy. It's done completely within SketchUp (thanks now to Frenchy's Visualizer plugin find!) and the overlay is quickly done in Pshop. Also, SketchUp has a very strong component architecture, so replicating things is simple, and editing an instance updates them all.

I have been thinking of when I use SketchUp and when I prefer MoI. I think this diagram pretty much sums it up:




The design process typically has both DIVERGE and CONVERGE phases. When working with a client in the early DIVERGE stage, it's important to be nimble and generate many concepts as quickly as possible. I can easily present them in a rapid, yet elegant way.

I also like to use SketchUp for tweaking designs before the CONVERGE phase. It's great, as are most poly modelers, for endlessly rearranging the polys to get a semblance, in block form, for what the final design should be. And the SketchUp line renders help hide inconsistencies which would show up as glaring artifacts in a more finished renderer.

I'll then go to MoI for the CONVERGE phase. In the last three months I've been able to do these things in MoI:
  • A number of nice Keyshot renders based on quick design concepts built in MoI
  • A wall mounted remote for house automation. I ended up creating a STEP file which then a machine shop could use to automate the milling for the final prototype. Turned out great-- and VERY accurate.
  • Just last week I designed a piece of hardware for DNA testing which had to fit perfectly on top of an iPad. I created the design in MoI, then shot out an STL to Stratasys Direct who then printed the 3d model. Worked perfect.

So, for me, it's clear I need to use many different tools to accomplish different results.

EDITED: 2 Apr 2015 by CHIPPWALTERS

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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
7275.82 
And don't forget something with all of that : the pleasure of use the tools and the very short learning curve!
So you are naturally more productive in no time (and this is perfect for "old white hairs" ! ;)

EDITED: 2 Apr 2015 by PILOU

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 From:  Ronamodeler (RON_A)
7275.83 
Wow, Chipp...thanks for taking the time for such a complete response! I used to do the marker / ink renderings a million years ago; but never was completely happy with the "sketchy" computer illustrations I was able to do with the software that I had. Looks like I need to learn something new!
Regards,
Ron
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 From:  chippwalters
7275.84 In reply to 7275.83 
Good for you. If you do use SketchUp, you might want to visit this rendering tute:
http://sketchucation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=25197


Have you seen MoI Interface Builder?
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 From:  ed (EDDYF)
7275.85 
My first attempt to model a car in any program. With Max's SubD scripts for MoI I thought I'd give it a try.

Still a WIP, but far enough along that I can answer the question that started this thread: Is MoI suitable for vehicle designs?

In my opinion, it depends. This model has gone surprisingly fast so far. And I'm a beginner. For cars without sharp edges I think the MoI SubD scripts work great. Controlling hard edges is a challenge with the current state of the tools, so I won't be attempting a 1964 Mustang or razor-edge Lamborghini.

Next steps are to finish tweaking the body, then use MoI traditional tools to make the windows, lights, grill, etc. Because the body is a solid, scooping out areas should be easy.

I'll make a mini-tutorial if anyone is interested.

Ed Ferguson

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 From:  chippwalters
7275.86 In reply to 7275.85 
Hi Ed,
Looks good. Yes, I'd be interested in a tutorial.

Off topic...I believe we talked a number of years ago, can't remember what about. Something to do with your website? I still remember how impressed I was with your ring designs and renders as well as the ambigram generator you had on your site. I see it's no longer there. What happened to it?

Have you seen MoI Interface Builder?
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 From:  ed (EDDYF)
7275.87 In reply to 7275.86 
Chipp -

After reading your postings, your blog, and your company web site - you should be teaching me!

OK - it will be awhile as I model when my wife is watching "her" shows on TV.

I really didn't intend to finish this originally, but the speed at which it got to this stage, and the results I got, encourage me to take it further.

And all while staying inside MoI! Well, except for the KeyShot render.

Ed Ferguson

PS - If you contact me via my web site I can tell you about the titanium rings.

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 From:  hep
7275.88 
wow - and all done in moi, nice
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 From:  ed (EDDYF)
7275.89 In reply to 7275.88 
Thought I'd go with a different style.

No need to start all over - just moved a few key points around in the MoI SubD structure.

Worked up a simple process to make headlight buckets / lenses without resorting to networks, blends, patches, etc. That phase of NURBs process is next.

Ed Ferguson



Playing with various design elements.

EDITED: 4 Apr 2015 by EDDYF


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 From:  chippwalters
7275.90 In reply to 7275.89 
Looking great, Ed. Can you show a MoI screenshot? Looking forward to the tute :-)

EDITED: 4 Apr 2015 by CHIPPWALTERS

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 From:  ed (EDDYF)
7275.91 In reply to 7275.90 
Here ya go Chipp -

This is my model created inside MoI with Max's SubD scripts, just before running his script: _Subdiv_beta6 to smooth it out. Then Boolean diff the wheel openings and export OBJ to KeyShot.

OK... gotta save something for the tutorial :)

Ed Ferguson

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 From:  hep
7275.92 
wow looking forward to the tutorial :-)
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 From:  bigseb
7275.93 In reply to 7275.1 
Depands what you want to do really. Want to design things that look like cars, planes, etc? Use Moi. Want to design real cars, planes, etc? Then you'll need Catia.

There's more to this than just continuity. Internal and external references along with co-ordinate systems are vital (and required by the industry). Then you're looking at assemblies, again crammed with internal and external references, skeleton parts, etc. And I'm just scratching the surface here.

FWIW: I am a designer at a company that provides parts for major airliner OEM's. Catia is what is used and the only software that can do the job.
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 From:  DannyT (DANTAS)
7275.94 In reply to 7275.93 
Hi Sebastian,

Long time no hear, hope all is well :)

> Catia is what is used and the only software that can do the job.

I wouldn't say the only software, there are other high end CAD software used in the aeronautical sector, I know Boeing use Siemens NX as well as Catia and I think most aeronautical companies use a combination of a few CAD software.

-
~Danny~
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
7275.95 
In theory Rhino is not sufficient for "really or like than"?
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 From:  chippwalters
7275.96 In reply to 7275.95 
I think the what Sebastian is talking about is the total ability of a piece of software to manage the full product lifecycle, which includes things like FEA, parts and assemblies management, tooling, verification, etc..

That said, the OP stated at the beginning he was a graphics designer wanting to transition into 'concept design,' which of course there are many satisfactory programs available. I'm pretty sure he wasn't as interested in the engineering part of all this.

Have you seen MoI Interface Builder?
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 From:  Mauro (M-DYNAMICS)
7275.97 
@Andrei
<< Pleas do not confuse people Designer and 3D modeler is not the same thing. You can be perfect 3D Modeler but awful Designer and vice versa.>>


....expanding this statement...
These designers did "The Car" in absolute way






This guy(master of Alias) did....pixels...for Hollywood blockbuster industry
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 From:  Andrei Samardac
7275.98 In reply to 7275.97 
Mauro, yep!
There are no even such a term Like 3D modelling when Marcello Gandini created Countach or Miura. So looks like hi is not real designer.
I can not understand why people that create concepts (real designers) and 3D modellers called - Designer. They do absolutley diffrent things.
Now days a lot of desiners started to use 3D to make concepts, I do the same thing.
And our aim is to transmit visual ideas but not to create ideal continuity or topology for production.
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 From:  OSTexo
7275.99 
Andrei,

You do realize the concept of continuity has been used in design for hundreds of years, don't you? I am unfamiliar with the term "ideal continuity" that you're using, I've not heard of it, please explain. I think you're beginning to respond to your own posts you've made earlier in the thread, I'm not sure why.
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 From:  Andrei Samardac
7275.100 In reply to 7275.99 
OSTexo,
Ideal continuity I mean class A surfaces with G2 or G3 continuity. I'm sure you talked about this.
But looks like now you are going to talk about it in terms of Art Forms or even Mathematics functions.

____________________________________________________________________
www.samardac.com
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