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 From:  Bard (BFM)
7081.1 
Michael,

I do not understand at all, this new form of invoice, to upgrade Moi 2.0 to Moi 3.0.
You have no right to ask any TVA (Tax to the Value Added), it's a French tax; and the people who collects this tax has the obligation to transfer this sum of money, to the French State.
Do you send this tax in France? I think that no, of course.

So the actual invoice to pay the new Moi is totally illicit, illegal.

I want well to give money against the new Moi, but with no tax of my country. Are you French? Have you your enterprise in France? No...

So, can you change this formular against the old manner to paid? That will be more regular, I think, no?
What's your opinion about? I would really understand why you go to receive taxes over all the World, and never restituate this money at each taxman or tax inspector for each country???

Really confusing this invoice, inacceptable.

EDITED: 25 Nov 2014 by MICHAEL GIBSON

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 From:  Michael Gibson
7081.2 In reply to 7081.1 
Hi Bard, sorry for the difficulty!

The ordering is handled for me by a separate company called BlueSnap - they collect any tax required by your country you are ordering from.

Many European countries have a tax law that requires payment of VAT tax for online orders, this is required by any company not just ones inside your own country.

If you have any questions about it, you can contact support@bluesnap.com to ask for an explanation.


> Do you send this tax in France? I think that no, of course.

I do not send it myself - but the BlueSnap company that handles the orders for me most definitely does send it, that's a key part of their business handling international taxes.


> What's your opinion about? I would really understand why you go to receive taxes over all the
> World, and never restituate this money at each taxman or tax inspector for each country???

Well here you are just jumping to totally incorrect conclusions - the company that collects these taxes is absolutely sending them to the proper tax authorties and it is really rather insulting to be accused of something like collecting taxes and not sending them to the proper authorities.

The situation of international taxes is complex and that's why I rely on a dedicated service to handle it all for me.

If this is not acceptable for you then I suggest not ordering MoI v3.

- Michael
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 From:  Michael Gibson
7081.3 In reply to 7081.1 
But please be aware, it is not appreciated to jump on the forum and accuse me of "illicit and illegal" activities and of committing some kind of tax fraud just because of a tax your own country requires to be collected.

The company that handles the orders for me (BlueSnap) is making sure that the taxes are collected and distributed correctly - which is ***EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE*** of tax fraud or any kind of illegal activity!!! So I find your accusation to be really rather bizarre.

- Michael
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 From:  Bard (BFM)
7081.4 In reply to 7081.3 
And me sorry to find the old manner to pay, more easy, more simple.
I will prefer to send money only to you (the Author); it's a right way.

And you know, this french TVA (VAT), it is an horror in an stupid turn of phrase, established by a man (President) that I cannot stand (as the wrong hour of time, midday at 14h00 PM, midnight at 2h00 AM, since the same years, may be now since 40 years ago).
My little enterprise is not subjugated (liable for tax) at this stupid TVA for that.

Never I want to be an agent of this execrable goverment (sort of housekeepers in power, a gang of pro-liars). I contest, protest, grumble, anything that can enrich all the parasites (scroungers) who find a niche (kennel for dog); "niche" is also a bad prank not agree-able.
I like the simple things without any "bio-" forward. So, the 20,6% more to paid, to this "niche", I do not accept easily this swindle, because same "official" (= churchy, root from "ofid", to serve, to be serf, slave, domestic), it's a swindle for a "system"; but that would be too long to explain what is really a "system"; in few words "bad or complex mechanical, red engine or roman charlatanism"...

Anyway, to paid the French taxes (VAT), by a Web form, localised in U.S.A, at my sense, it's not legal; completely insane. The society that mades that, I don't know what it is, but I don't like this manner to proceed; and I don't go to investigate on the parasite society that you have choosen, I have other things to do, sorry for that.

I come from Brittany, the "goddam french" are the others, ones not in my land; just to say "damned nature of Scots, Gallish or Welsh" who love so much "Horse's brother" more than anything else, "to be free".

Allez good MoI 2.0 (or may be a 3.0 without VAT).
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 From:  coi (MARCO)
7081.5 In reply to 7081.4 
that's "simply put" EU law..nothing to do with greed or governments per se..

http://www.forbes.com/sites/janetnovack/2014/05/15/european-vat-10-things-online-sellers-need-to-know-about-taxes-on-digital-goods-and-services/

quote:
The key change enshrined in the 2015 EU VAT Directive is that suppliers of broadcasting, telecommunications and electronic services (BTEs) in the EU will have to charge VAT based on the location of their end customer (non-taxable person). This differs from the existing rules where VAT is charged based on the location of the supplier of the service.



..regarding VAT, you could try buying via novedge. i'm not sure if they execute the new VAT-thing already.
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 From:  blowlamp
7081.6 
Bard.

It seems like you may have a few Country options on the payments page that determine if VAT is applicable.
For instance, if you live in France, then VAT is added to the payment - on the other hand, if you live in France (European Territory) etc, it isn't.

France is in Europe isn't it?


Martin.
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 From:  Bard (BFM)
7081.7 In reply to 7081.6 
Blowlamp, yes France is in the EU (Europe or European countries), but the TVA (or french VAT) is only authorized to the French enterprises, societies or companies, localised in France, and not any other one.
To ask the TVA, give to the French societies the right to get a TVA credit. All that, in only available on the French territory. So I contest to pay this tax, to a company not authorised to do it, because this enterprise is not in France. Do you know the mean?
But of course, I'm not a fiscalist, but I know a little the French laws to be enough confused with this Web form, from a society not French.


MARCO
The texts concern the big multinational companies, because all, they have agencies or offices, almost in all the territory of these countries (in Europe). If the TVA (VAT) is now for all the European countries, that concerns the Societies with offices with an address in these europeans countries. It's that I undertand for the moment of these texts.

Good MoI.

EDITED: 25 Nov 2014 by BFM

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 From:  blowlamp
7081.8 In reply to 7081.7 
Bard.

QUOTE: ***Blowlamp, yes France is in the EU (Europe or European countries)***

Then select that option, buy MoI v3 (sans VAT) and MOVE ON with your life, knowing that you've done the right thing. ;-)

PS. Remember that on the payment page you are being given the *option* to choose your location.


Martin.

EDITED: 25 Nov 2014 by BLOWLAMP

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 From:  Bard (BFM)
7081.9 In reply to 7081.8 
BLOWLAMP
No I do not. I don't like to pay TAX under the leg, similar to a organised racket, same global (and official).
Do you know what is to stand up to, to resist, to put up resistance to any order or ordure (refuse, dirt)? My langage says things that you cannot hear because the words.

PS: OK, I come to look who was behind this strange Bluesnap company, it's AMAZON.
That explain why they ask VAT, TVA and other TAXES in any country.

So, it's very simple, I never give one penny to AMAZON.
The affair is closed. No MoI 3.0 for me.
I won't enrich this TRUST, I am disgusted by this choice.

EDITED: 25 Nov 2014 by BFM

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 From:  blowlamp
7081.10 In reply to 7081.9 
Bard.

I've got a feeling that you didn't understand my last post as I agree with your last view, perhaps more than you could ever imagine!

Please see the highlighted areas in these pictures to understand what I mean.

I'd like to see BitCoin as a payment option for MoI.



Martin.







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 From:  PaQ
7081.11 In reply to 7081.10 
... storm in a teacup ... probably posted with a Chinese computer using MS Windows :o)
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 From:  danperk (SBEECH)
7081.12 
The Matrix is real, and we all live in it!

Are you ready for the future? It's ready for you!
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 From:  Bard (BFM)
7081.13 In reply to 7081.12 
Wo pu mingbaï ! How it's possible?
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 From:  Mauro (M-DYNAMICS)
7081.14 
Ciao Bard :) ...welcome back !

You are a "Don Quijote de la Mancha "



...but i agree with you ! :)

I updated to V3 paying 22% VAT ( IVA here in Italy)

Supposing next week i do a project for a customer using MOI
Suddendly Tax-inspectors ring to my door
They will check my pc asking me:" show invoices software's you using"
They'll check not only if i regulary payed them,not cracked,but also check if i pay VAT on the invoice
If not....i'll pay a big penalty...much more than 22 euros ;)
I don't care where VAT will go,i can show off to inspectors i'm OK

M


-post scriptum-
I used the word "Ciao Bard" instead of "Hello Bard " at the beginning
This is an Italian popular form that just means "Hello"
Seems that derives from the ancient Venetian Republic's leanguage:Ciao=s'ciavo vostro (hello,i'm your slave)
Here her Symbol:The S.Mark's lion

Pax tibi Bard :)

EDITED: 25 Nov 2014 by M-DYNAMICS

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 From:  blowlamp
7081.15 In reply to 7081.14 
Since when did tax collectors acquire the power to conduct that kind of action?

Can strangers in Italy really (lawfully) enter your premises without warning and start 'going through your stuff'?



Martin.
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 From:  TpwUK
7081.16 In reply to 7081.15 
Hey Blowlamp - Here in the UK the VAT is enforced by HM customs and excise and as such are the only governmental body here that can enter, seize goods and arrest you without a warrant!

Martin Spencer-Ford
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 From:  BurrMan
7081.17 In reply to 7081.16 
"Seek above all, for a game worth playing".......

BTW: I'm pretty sure Michael would give the shirt off his back to a guy.....
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 From:  Mauro (M-DYNAMICS)
7081.18 In reply to 7081.15 
@blowlamp:
Since when did tax collectors acquire the power to conduct that kind of action?

Can strangers in Italy really (lawfully) enter your premises without warning and start 'going through your stuff'?

-------------

Hi Martin:
Yes,tax collectors got full power here,that's because we are a land of thiefs and clevers ;) ...and much more...
There is no future Here !

M
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 From:  Michael Gibson
7081.19 In reply to 7081.7 
Bard, you wrote:

> but the TVA (or french VAT) is only authorized to the French enterprises, societies or
> companies, localised in France, and not any other one.

You are wrong, the French (and EU) tax law is that the VAT must be collected for an online purchase and it is based on the country where you are ordering from:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_value_added_tax

"Following changes introduced on 1 July 2003, non-EU businesses providing digital electronic commerce and entertainment products and services to EU countries are also required to register with the tax authorities in the relevant EU member state, and to collect VAT on their sales at the appropriate rate, according to the location of the purchaser."


http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/taxation/vat/consumers/mail_order_distance/index_en.htm

"The general rule for supplies of goods to private individuals in the single market is the "origin" principle. This means that private individuals pay VAT in the Member State of purchase"

"Goods supplied from outside the European Union are subject to VAT on importation."



I can understand that you don't like to pay this tax, however it is ridiculous to say that it's illegal - according to the law the tax is required to be payed. NOT paying it would be illegal, it's silly to say that collecting it as required by law is illegal.

- Michael
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 From:  blowlamp
7081.20 
Well here in the UK, government bodies, banks and other corporations tend to treat people as their personal property, to do with as they please whilst routinely ignoring law and routinely getting away with it.

However, there are many cases of individuals learning what their rights are and enforcing them vigorously.


Martin.
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