V3 beta Jun-27-2014 available now
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 From:  Michael Gibson
6790.11 In reply to 6790.5 
Hi Danny, thanks for the detailed testing of the new face extrude!

> The file attached looks like the image below, when you extrude the face that is style
> 'Red' in the Z+ direction and end up with the result like in the second image the body
> becomes a joined surface.

This is because it forms a "non manifold" edge, basically after that cut there is now a spot on the model where 4 different faces are coming together at a single edge, it's sort of like the model has a pinched area in it where opposite sides of the model are touching each other. That more or less makes it into a self-intersecting shape and there will be problems with analyzing the volume of things like that.

In your case here it's this particular spot here, notice how opposite sides of the model are coming into that same one edge, that's a type of self overlapping:



That's more or less a case of just "don't do that"... There needs to be a little bit of clearance space in spots like that rather than having opposite sides of the shape come to a single touching edge.

Even though there aren't any naked edges in that model, it doesn't read as a "solid" object type because there is an error classifying the solid volume regions of it. Something will only read as a solid if it both has no naked edges and also has been able to form at least 2 region volumes for the outside region and inside region. EDIT: actually after double checking, this particular case doesn't read as solid not because of regions but because of that one particular non-manifold edge which ends up belonging to 4 faces. A manifold edge must belong to only either one same face for a closed surface or otherwise be joined between just 2 surfaces, all edges must be manifold for an object to read as solid).

If you widen this spot here over just slightly then it should avoid the grazing pieces and then your same red face extrusion should generate a solid ok after that, see the attached 3DM file.



- Michael

EDITED: 29 Jun 2014 by MICHAEL GIBSON


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 From:  Michael Gibson
6790.12 In reply to 6790.10 
@ danperk,

> A few days ago I noticed that the AI Export options Projection View dropdown choices don't change with the view port settings.
>
> Would it be possible to have the list populated with the current settings?


That probably should be easy to tune up, I'll take a look tommorrow.

- Michael
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 From:  danperk (SBEECH)
6790.13 
Thanks Michael! Looking forward to V3 release! :)
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 From:  DannyT (DANTAS)
6790.14 In reply to 6790.11 
Hi Michael,

> This is because it forms a "non manifold" edge........

Yeah like I said I wouldn't go to this extreme however thanks for the explanation I did search for naked edges and was puzzled that nothing showed up, now I know what to look for if I come across this situation.

Cheers
~Danny~
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 From:  Michael Gibson
6790.15 In reply to 6790.14 
Hi Danny, MoI does try to get rid of non-manifold edges after doing booleans, but the main way that it does that is by breaking things apart into separate solid regions so different volumes that have common edges between them become separate objects. But that does not handle this type of situation you had here.

The non-manifold edges will probably become naked edges after you save such a thing out to a file and read it back in again, much of the stuff for going into various file formats including 3DM expects the model to be manifold.

- Michael
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 From:  PaQ
6790.16 In reply to 6790.15 
The Extrude auto booleans looks so sweet, thanks for the new beta !

Just wondering, can't this push/pull be the normal behavior when you sub-select and drag a face ? so you don't actually need to use the extrude command ?

I'm asking that because I have half read the beta log. I just lauch MoI, create a cube, and my first thought was that I could just select and drag a face. Seems very natural too me, I had to come back on the forum to undrestand I have to use the extrude command.

EDITED: 29 Jun 2014 by PAQ

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 From:  Andrei Samardac
6790.17 In reply to 6790.16 
Also Michael, it will be great to not only extrude but also shell, for examaple to change size of holes, or increa/decreas chamfer.
Also it will be great to move holes.
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 From:  ed (EDDYF)
6790.18 
Push-pull extrude boolean is a great addition. Nice way to stay in the creative zone rather than dealing with the mechanics of boolean operations.

Ed
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 From:  Michael Gibson
6790.19 In reply to 6790.16 
@ PaQ,

> Just wondering, can't this push/pull be the normal behavior when you sub-select and drag a face ?
> so you don't actually need to use the extrude command ?

I do want to do face dragging in the future but I'm waiting until I have a "move face" mechanism. Dragging is meant to be a quick way to do a Transform > Move, and moving a face is a somewhat different operation than extruding it, except for the special cases where the surrounding pieces are all at 90 degrees to each other.

In a CAD program usually to move a face means to extend the surrounding surfaces until they reintersect the newly positioned face, for example:




Extrude gives a much different kind of result, like this:




They're different operations but they happen to give the same results for certain kinds of objects like boxes.

- Michael

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 From:  Michael Gibson
6790.20 In reply to 6790.17 
Hi Andrei,

> Also Michael, it will be great to not only extrude but also shell,

That is something I'd like to explore in the future. But it may be difficult to put in shell because shell already does something else when given a face sub-object selection, it uses those selected face as the openings for the shelled result.

It might fit in to offset maybe something like a "build side walls" option for when offsetting a face, that would be for doing pockets or protrusions using an offset type construction rather than an extrusion type.


> for examaple to change size of holes, or increa/decreas chamfer.
> Also it will be great to move holes.

These kinds of things will probably work better with "face transforms", similar to what I described above in the reply to PaQ, that's where after doing some edit on a particular face like moving, rotating, or scaling it, the surrounding faces are extended and reintersected with the updated face. It's something that I want to work on in the future.

- Michael
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 From:  Samuel Zeller
6790.21 
Thank you Michael for your incredible work, this new beta is a huge release!

I'm really thankful of this whole community and software, MoI is becoming my main tool and it feels so good to use.

I'm quitting my day work to work as a freelancer from 1st september and I can't wait to show you guys some of my latest stuff :)


Cheers
--
shapenoid.com
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 From:  TOXE (DAVIDETOSCHES)
6790.22 In reply to 6790.1 
Michael,

great work! Just a question, how it works Nsided? I haven't understand it... Thanks. Davide
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 From:  DannyT (DANTAS)
6790.23 In reply to 6790.22 
Hi Davide,

There's some discussion on Nsided here http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=5721.2

-
~Danny~
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 From:  TOXE (DAVIDETOSCHES)
6790.24 In reply to 6790.23 
Thanks Danny!
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 From:  PaQ
6790.25 
Hi Michael,

It makea sense of course, thanks for your time !
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 From:  niko (NICKP100)
6790.26 
Thank you Michael!!!
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 From:  Ditto
6790.27 
One word: Wow!

Thanks Michael, this is a fabulous new pack of features!
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 From:  Mike K4ICY (MAJIKMIKE)
6790.28 
Great work Michael!!!!! :-)

The "push-pull" feature feels intuitive like the one in SketchUp, except that MoI's can push walls past all kind of weird nooks and crannys that stop SU's.
WOWWWW!!!!
Should be extremely useful.

Please consider being able to push/pull curved surfaces via their normal... or a tie-in with shell, being able to do so on adjoined selected surface. (much later - for the V4 wish list)

Also... not to sure what to make of the "planar sections" in Blend. I get some crazy results. I suppose I'll wait to see your tutorial.


So I'll make sure I get my upgrade moo-la saved... :-)
In comparison to V2, V3 is certainly even more so a powerhouse!
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 From:  Michael Gibson
6790.29 In reply to 6790.28 
@Mike K4ICY

> Please consider being able to push/pull curved surfaces via their normal... or a tie-in with shell,
> being able to do so on adjoined selected surface. (much later - for the V4 wish list)

It may be difficult to put it into Shell, because Shell already uses face selections to do something different, for determining where the openings will be in the shelled result.

But maybe it could fit ok as an option inside of Offset, I'd like to explore that in V4 at some point.


> Also... not to sure what to make of the "planar sections" in Blend. I get some crazy results.
> I suppose I'll wait to see your tutorial.

It should help in situations where you've got some tight bends in a closed shape. I'll post some info on it later today.

- Michael
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 From:  Metin Seven (SEVENSHEAVEN)
6790.30 
Just discovered the beta news, and installed it right away. The auto-Boolean is fabulous, thanks a lot Michael! MoI is getting pleasantly closer to the benefits of poly modeling.

Shifting the faces even works on a solid created by extruding a polyline curve.

One minor remark: if you use extrude on the cap of a cylinder solid, it leaves an edge loop when extruding outward. Is there a reason for that?

Thanks again,

Metin
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