Hello Michael, as you already know a lot of textures are already applied with bumpmaps etc, but most lack the depth that you are after, and modelling those features with real solids can be very time consuming. The possibility of using an image to generate these kind of features would be a real bonus, especially features that are for appearance, and don't need any high level of accuracy in relation to dimensions. Your flow command is a good example, say an object created with Zsurf and then flowed onto a surface of another object, giving indentations and variation to surface contour.

I am going to have a little try with Zsurf and see how I get on, and will get back to you tomorrow.

Many thanks for your prompt reply!.

Hi Michael,

> Hello Michael, as you already know a lot of textures are already applied with bumpmaps etc,

Yes, but it's also not unusual for there to be "seams" in the result of how bumpmap textures get applied in a rendering, that's where some areas of the mesh end up with different spots of the source texture on them.

For a rendering that just means that area of the rendered image looks a bit odd. For trying to build a solid from it, it means the solid would be basically ripping a type of hole in it right there. But not really a clean cut type of hole either, more like a surface that suddenly tries to jump between 2 different levels right at the same spot on the same surface. That type of sudden jump tends to make for very messy results in CAD geometry. CAD geometry is built from surface patches and it's intended that each surface patch is a smooth surface.

For generating a deformed solid, it works a lot better if the deformation action is continuous everywhere the solid is being deformed, that's why Flow is based on a kind of structured larger overall type of deformation...


What you might try to do depends a lot on the particular result that you're looking for though. If you want something that's pockmarked or kind of randomly eroded all over the place probably you're looking at taking the object into something like 3D-Coat and using their brush sculpting tools to paint pock marks on it. You will then have polygon mesh geometry from there on out so you won't be able to bring that type of method back into MoI again.

If you're looking for more of a kind of embossing effect on a more structured area of your mode (like that follows one particular surface rather than all across the entire model)l, then the ZSurf + flow method could be a fit with that.

If you have any examples you can show for what result you're trying to achieve that would help to narrow the possibilities down even more probably.

- Michael

It is not any definite object that I am after Michael, just general deformation as most of my work is cad turned into 3d sculpture prints and as you know reality really has very few true flat surfaces straight lines or curves. My attempt to mimic these with a solid deformation as opposed to a bumpmap is what started me thinking.

I have just tried an example igs file from Zsurf, and sure enough Moi's flow command does apply it to a surface. I will try a bit of experimenting and see how I get on, even if I can apply detail from an image to some surfaces that would otherwise be modelled would be a big time saver.

I have also been looking at one of the posts in the "distort curve script" thread which will also give me some distortion possibilities.
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=6659.13

It can happen that if you're trying to do something with a lot of little localized bumps, lumps or folds in it that a polygon mesh based modeling program can just be a better fit for that type of project rather than MoI. They're a lot more focused just in general on making organic shapes which is not really the target of a CAD program.

Sometimes a hybrid approach can be good though too, like build larger sort of "idealized" forms in MoI, then bring that into 3D-Coat and add smaller level details with brush strokes there...

- Michael

Here is the igs file from Zsurf applied to a cylinder with moi's flow command, Zsurf appears to deform from a base elevation upwards in the z direction, so it converted to a solid without any problems.

Here is the example file.

Here is a copy of a test igs file from Zsurf, in case anyone wants to try the same.

Sorry for adding some large files to this post Michael, but the first time I have attached files, and have not read up on your file limits.

Hi Michael, also I think that there's an option in ZSurf for it to build the surface as a cylindrical one direct out from ZSurf as well...

re:
> Sorry for adding some large files to this post Michael, but the first time I have
> attached files, and have not read up on your file limits.

No problem - for larger files like this it's not a bad idea to .zip them, they will compress somewhat. IGES files will actually compress a whole lot with being zipped. You can post up to around 40MB of attachments directly here, if you need more than that then at that point a file sharing service like Dropbox or whatever is needed instead.

- Michael

Many thanks for your assistance Michael, Zsurf combined with moi's flow command will put some very useful tools in my toolbox, also most of the peripheral embellishments for my sculptures don't have to be perfect, as they are better for the artwork with a more worn or eroded appearance. The flow command really is a great tool and I will no doubt spend many interesting hours exploring it's possibilities. The next thing I am in search of now, is the equivalent of an envelope command that can transform an object to another given profile, not sure if flow works along those lines yet as I have not tried it, say something in a square shape distorted to a triangular or circular shape.

ZSurf is pretty cool, especially since its free.

ZSurf tends to work better with simpler, more graphic shapes. I've tried giving it a more detailed images and the fine details can get melted away. Its also difficult to get consistently flat areas, like a background, or flat tops on raised areas.

Rhino has a command that is similar, using a greyscale image to displace a nurbs surface.

Many poly modeling apps give you the ability to apply a displacement image, or displacement sculpting. Its possible to convert a model with millions of polys to nurbs through Geomagic or similar if you need it to do cnc machining.

T-Splines is a plugin for Rhino that allows the use of a poly model to deform a nurbs surface. While it does produce a nurbs model from a poly model, its usefulness as a converter is limited by the number of polys it can handle. Then there is PowerSubdNurbs (plugin for Modo, SolidWorks, 3dsMax), which is in some ways similar to T-Splines, and also limited by the number of polys it can handle.

I may be able to use the Mould Tool in Xara to deform the displacement map to another shape before turning it into an igs file in Zsurf. Illustrator and Coreldraw probably have similar features. At the end of the day with peripheral embellishments, I could change the shape of a small number of displacement maps into a myriad of totally new displacement maps to fit different shape objects or to create different shape relief igs files in Zsurf.

Example of Xara Mould tool, also using preset envelope to distort one shape or object to another shape.

http://www.xaraxone.com/webxealot/workbook43/page_3.htm

Thanks for the feedback Chris, I have the 90 day trial of Rhino, which I installed a couple of weeks ago but as yet have not had time to explore it's toolset.

I am a long time Turbocad User, and many years ago an Autocad user also. I find the combination of Turbocad and Moi just perfect for my needs, and some of the more fluid and organic stuff that Michael Gibson has developed really brings big smiles to my face, I can't think of a program that has grabbed my imagination so much in years apart from Turbocad.

I believe that Michael has the perfect mindset as to where 3d Cad and organic modelling should be going and would love to see a large injection of funds and resources come his way for further development of his "Moment Of Inspiration".

Just imagine having the resources to port Moi to 64Bit, it already handles files that other 32 bit programs would not even look at.

Like many others on this forum, I am hooked!.

Thanks for the kind words Michael, I'm glad that you're enjoying MoI! :)

- Michael