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"SubD plugin in MoI could be made 20 years ago with regular SubD" Andrei Samardac

Its not the just subD that is amazing but the potential to model organic "nurbs" forms from simple Moi objects.

Nurbs subD forms will be smooth at any size with no faceting unlike polygons . Its a great option for product design.

Its really polygons vs nurbs. Polygons will however always be more flexible for character modelling ( displacement maps)

Also, objects in NVil( your software) , 3dcoat or Silo can be imported and converted to nurbs !!!!!! Amazing

I embrace any worthy addition to Moi's repertoire.

3dcnc, are you shore this plugin smooth perfectly? I am not explored it but I remember people here say that it is not perfect.
And you are right you can make simple things from simple things :) But how about something real, not about some toy models? There is big lack of polygonal instruments here. So to make something real, I mean organic shapes, you will spent a lot of time using MoI.

So lets look seriously on it, it is a big step forward but it is far away from ideal environment for creating organic shapes.
So if you want serious results in modeling why not to learn SubD modeling? And you can convert your SubD to Nurbs at any time.

I was not going to insult anybody here..
The things for me looks like you are so happy like you invented the wheel in 21 century.

haha! Nice, Mike. Sure didn't take you long to put Max's script to the test! :-)

"... I embrace any worthy addition to MoI's repertoire."

I agree. And the issue is not how long SubD has been around, or whether there are better dedicated SubD programs available.

The issue is, there is now a viable option within MoI to create objects that otherwise required the user to learn a whole new program.

Max's scripts open new possibilities within MoI while still using many of the same tools I'm already familiar with: extrude, alignments, create solid, scaling, view points, etc.

And, I can easily see how the objects fit together with other traditional NURBs objects. And I can perform Boolean operations on the NURBS object created with the scripts. Need a clean hole cut through the object? No problem.

The real benefit to me is the integration: Familiar tools. All my model parts visible at the same time. Ability to visualize how all these parts fit together without exporting/importing from another program.

Do Max's scripts have all the functionality of a dedicated SubD program? No. But, they've only been around less than a month! And MoI doesn't need to emulate the features of a dedicated SubD program. What was missing is a simple solution for users to create some simple organic shapes that were difficult or impossible to make with NURBs.

Hopefully this functionality will improve and get added to the core of MoI at some point. I think the hit to the UI would be minimal, as MoI already has many of the supporting tools already in place. Heck, so far it's only 4 scripts (buttons) plus an OBJ import. Just need a new menu tab added to the Construct / Transform window.

Ed Ferguson, aka Happy Kid

Hi Andrei

I think there might be some issues with smoothness ( continuity/tangency) between surfaces , but that is even the case with Tsplines for Rhino. ( from what I hear)

I don't trust accuracy models made in poly modelers. I get problems with them all the time. They are great for presentation , but generally rubbish for manufacture. I run a business called www.3dcnc.co.uk . My work can be found here. http://www.3dcnc.uk/

Poly modelling is a skill and art. I can see that you have that skill. I would generally only use it for character modelling in my business.

I love Moi for its simplicity. I try to get students interested in modelling using it. Its a great start. Any extra tricks helps me prove that Moi is worth learning.


Which software do you use to convert your poly model to nurbs?

3dcnc, I use T-Spline, quality is thousands time better than subd plugin. But I made it not so often I prefer to finish model in Poly if I started it in Poly. I prefer not to mix, because I can not take any advantages of this only troubles. If I need it in Nurbs I convert it after everything is finished.

3dcnc,

-Can you clarify what issues you have with poly models and machining?
-By accuracy, do you mean you have vertices that are not joined or other topology issue, or do you mean you need to make parts that fit with a relatively tight tolerance?

Hi chris D

Its to do with tolerance when parts must fit together. Most CNC software has limited cutting control on cutting poly models . Its ok for organic and rough shapes , but other "machine part" shapes are better modelled in nurbs.

All curves ,circles and arcs are faceted in poly modellers. This is a major problem . Its still possible to machine, but you end up remaking some of model in nurbs or adding machining curves . Its a pain.

Nurbs is always better for manufacture and accurate work. I use 4 different CAM software depending on job.

Hi Andrei

As T-splines is now owned by Autodesk, I would prefer another option. I don't trust Autodesk. They are just trying to control the CAD market. I am sure they wont update tsplines for Rhino. It will be allowed to die a slow death. There is also Clayoo, which i have not tried , but I heard there are some problems in current version. I was hoping that http://www.npowersoftware.com/ would create a version for Rhino.

3dcnc,
But what is wrong with T-Spline now? Yes AD own it but it already works good.
I think it is not good reason not to use it only because AD own it.
AD killed SoftImage but it remains the best poly modeller for me after NVil :D.

PS
In Russian AD means a place regarded in various religions as a spiritual realm of evil, HELL :D

Hi Andrei, maybe because English is not your primary language you are not aware of the harsh and rude tone that your messages are having here.

I don't like to have the forum filled with arguments and "flame wars" - constructive criticism is certainly ok but if you only have disparaging comments those are not welcome.

In the very beginning of this thread, you asked: "Michael, Could you pleas make some Converter to convert from Polygon models to Nurbs."

So guess what, someone did make a converter and some people are finding it useful - it opens up a new method of modeling that can be used directly in MoI without needing to purchase Rhino and Tsplines which is a considerable investment. It is not surprising to me that this is useful to a lot of people.

If you yourself don't find it useful then that's fine - but there is no need to make rude comments about it, please stop doing that.

Maybe you don't remember this but back a year or so ago I was trying to tell you over and over again that much of what you were trying to do would be easier to do in sub-d modeling rather than in NURBS modeling, and you were very resistant to that....

- Michael

AD :)

I would rather go to AD than buy more software from Autodesk at the moment. :)

A Rhino reseller told me that they tested T-splines for automotive modelling and product. it was "apparently" not good enough on continuity but I think for most people it would be good enough.

I want to just play around with SubD nurbs modeling for furniture . the Moi plugin will probably be more than good enough, and get better in the future. I want the accuracy of nurbs with freedom of subD. I am waiting for a donate button, so i can contribute to its development . I am very grateful for it and excited.

Michael yes English is not my native, and to be polite etc I have to spend time translating it to English with google translate. From my side I can not see any harmfull sence in my messages, may becaus of English is not my native. I did not say subD plugin is bad, I just wander that people are so happy using it, that it is, nothing more.
This is waht I said:
Hay guys, I just watching this theme and always want to say, that primitive stuff that you made with SubD plugin in MoI could be made 20 years ago with regular SubD and not so primitive but much more advanced. But looks like you are happy like kids, making that simple stuff, so do not going to break up you happiness :D))!

I put smiles in the end to show that I am joking and not going to abuse anybody.
What is wrong with this I reallly do not understand or is it here some not primitive results of using subD plugin?

May be it is because of the language this problem I do not know.

Did I missed something? :))

Hi Andrei, well basically when you use words like "childish" or "primitive" it tends to have an insult implied, it means you are calling the person's work unfit in some way.

That's why your comments are stirring up complaints.


> I did not say subD plugin is bad, I just wander that people are so happy using
> it, that it is, nothing more.

Well, it's not really very mysterious - if you do want to do something simple like in the examples you don't like, it costs something like $1700 to get Rhino and Tsplines together, don't you think that for a lot of people they might not want to pay so much money to do simple things and would be excited to be able to do them with what they already have?

I don't see what is so difficult to understand about why a lot of people would be excited about that.

It's something that you yourself asked for (having sub-d modeling inside of MoI) right at the very start of this same thread...

- Michael

>> Did I missed something? :))

Hi Max,

some problems with language...but you can continue to talk javascript :)

Thanks you for your new tools (split, bridge and scale) !

Hi Lawrence :)

yes, I speak javascript much better than english ;)

That's some nice work 3dcnc!

I've been playing around with a toy 3-axis CNC machine, so it gives me even greater appreciation for some of the stuff you've made.