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 From:  Metin Seven (SEVENSHEAVEN)
6304.1 
Hi Michael et al,

I've been experimenting with the trial version of MOI and I'm impressed, great work. It has a lot of useful features that are missing from Autodesk 123D Design.

I'd like to go for the full version, but I'm a bit concerned after reading that the site has a "Copyright 2010" at the bottom, and the last beta release note is from November 2012. Can I be confident that MOI will remain actively developed and supported? I don't want to invest in a slowly dying side-project of Rhinoceros development, but please correct me if I'm wrong. I hope I'm wrong.

I'm also planning to cross over from Windows to Mac, but I saw that there's a Mac version as well. That's great.

While I'm at it, there are a few features from 123D Design I'm missing in MOI: the ability to manipulate edges, surfaces and fillets after they've been established. 123D Design has some tools, such as Tweak and Press/Pull, that enable you to adjust the radius of a fillet and move edges and surfaces after a solid has been created. But maybe those options are present in MOI but I just don't know the right tools yet?

Thanks,

Metin
http://sevensheaven.nl

EDITED: 26 Nov 2013 by SEVENSHEAVEN

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 From:  Denis (SPACELAND)
6304.2 In reply to 6304.1 
The web site might have a copyright of 2010 but if you read the discussions in the forum everyday you will see that Moi 3D is in beta version, latest is November 19th 2013, that is version 3.

Michael is hard at work to get us a new version 3, I hope soon.

At the moment I can tell you that Moi is very actively in development.

Denis
| CorelDraw Grahics Suite X6 | Moi 3D V2 | Carrara 8.5 Pro | Cinema 4D R15 |

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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
6304.3 In reply to 6304.2 
And what differences can you remark between a last release beta version 3 fully working and a future V3 ? ;)
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 From:  Metin Seven (SEVENSHEAVEN)
6304.4 
Thanks for your comments, guys. Sounds good. If I decide to go for MOI, I'll definitely install the beta version, as I've come across some interesting new features.

Best regards,

Metin
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 From:  milkywaif
6304.5 In reply to 6304.1 
Sevensheaven,

> I'd like to go for the full version, but I'm a bit concerned after reading that the site has a "Copyright 2010" at the bottom, and the last beta release note is from November 2012. Can I be confident that MOI will remain actively developed and supported?

Yes it may look suspicious but don't worry about those details. MoI is being actively developed. Just read some posts in this forum and you'll understand. I think Michael does not have time to update main site because he's developing MoI all by himself and he's giving detailed replies to every single question on this forum (that's supposed to take hell of a time)

Even if MoI development stops some time in future, it still deserves every penny you spend...
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 From:  Metin Seven (SEVENSHEAVEN)
6304.6 In reply to 6304.5 
Thank you too, I'm glad to read that MOI is still actively developed, as I really like its balance between powerful possibilities and an intuitive UI.
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 From:  milkywaif
6304.7 In reply to 6304.1 
> While I'm at it, there are a few features from 123D Design I'm missing in MOI: the ability to manipulate edges, surfaces and fillets after they've been established. 123D Design has some tools, such as Tweak and Press/Pull, that enable you to adjust the radius of a fillet and move edges and surfaces after a solid has been created. But maybe those options are present in MOI but I just don't know the right tools yet?

MoI has object history feature but it works at basic level. It's not possible to do those tweaks at the moment but Michael mentioned he has some plans of developing advanced history mechanism for non-destructive modeling. I don't know but maybe in v4...
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 From:  Metin Seven (SEVENSHEAVEN)
6304.8 In reply to 6304.7 
Cool. The more non-destructivity, the better (like in real life ☺).
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 From:  BurrMan
6304.9 In reply to 6304.1 
Here's the latest release notes:

http://moi3d.com/forum/messages.php?webtag=MOI&msg=6297.1

He probably wouldn't make release notes for the beta sessions as they go. The websites actual release notes would be for a "release". Like version 2 released in 2012.

""""""""but I'm a bit concerned after reading that the site has a "Copyright 2010" at the bottom"""""""""

Triple squid software design obtains it's copyright in 2010. It doesn't get renewed every year, or need to. It's good for like 95 years or something.

I would be more concerned about a copyright "November 26, 2013"................................

I think the development stops, when Michael stops.......... Breathing!
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 From:  Metin Seven (SEVENSHEAVEN)
6304.10 In reply to 6304.9 
☺ Hahaha. Well, let's hope Michael doesn't stop breathing for at least the next 256 years. ☺
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 From:  BurrMan
6304.11 In reply to 6304.10 
"""""for at least the next 256 years"""""""""""

Yes! :)

Or I fear MoI will become very good at modeling and surfacing "Carrot's", for some reason.................. :o
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 From:  Michael Gibson
6304.12 In reply to 6304.1 
Hi Metin, I never really expected to get a negative impression just by not updating the copyright notice on the web site! ;)

Don't worry though - that isn't a sign that MoI as a whole project is neglected, yes the web site is neglected but that's purely because I put so much work into the software itself and also into answering things here in the forum. You should be able to easily see daily activity in the forum stretching back for years...

Once the V3 final release is out I will probably focus some attention on the web site for a little bit, and I'll try to remember to update the copyright notice at that time as well.

Also as others mentioned, actually the last beta release note posted here on the forum is from the Nov-19-2013 version, just a week old, you can't get any more current than that! :) You were probably looking at the wiki which I have been lax in keeping up to date, sorry about that.


> I don't want to invest in a slowly dying side-project of Rhinoceros development, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

Well, I work on it all day every day, I answer questions here every day in the forum, and I just released a new v3 beta version one week ago... I'm not sure how it's possible to be more active than that...


> But maybe those options are present in MOI but I just don't know the right tools yet?

No these particular features are not available in MoI currently. They are things that I'd like to add in the future but I'm not sure exactly when that will happen. For now if those features are important to your workflow you would need to use 123D Design along with MoI to get that stuff.

- Michael
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 From:  Metin Seven (SEVENSHEAVEN)
6304.13 In reply to 6304.12 
Thank you very much for your reply, Michael. By now I'm completely convinced of MoI's ongoing lifespan, and will definitely consider upgrading to the full version, after I've given myself some more trial time to get accustomed to the NURBS approach to modeling, as it's quite a transition for a hardcore poly subdivision modeler like me, who's used to total control over every element.

Keep up the great work.

All the best,

Metin
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 From:  Denis (SPACELAND)
6304.14 In reply to 6304.12 
""From Michael: Well, I work on it all day every day, I answer questions here every day in the forum, and I just released a new v3 beta version one week ago... I'm not sure how it's possible to be more active than that...""

You need to train your body to continue working even in your sleep?

Dream that you are fixing Bugs (that one you could already do it)

:)

Hey Michael, if you need help with the web site, we can help you, if you want the help.

Denis
| CorelDraw Grahics Suite X6 | Moi 3D V2 | Carrara 8.5 Pro | Cinema 4D R15 |

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 From:  Michael Gibson
6304.15 In reply to 6304.13 
Hi Metin,

> after I've given myself some more trial time to get accustomed to the NURBS approach to modeling, as
> it's quite a transition for a hardcore poly subdivision modeler like me, who's used to total control over
> every element.

Yeah the overall strategy for NURBS modeling is very different from poly modeling. One of the biggest things with NURBS modeling is that you want a lot of the 3D edge curves in your model to be produced as a result of booleans rather than by individually positioning things in 3D directly like you do with sub-d modeling.

Basically you want to be doing most of your work with 2D curves, some 2D curves being used to generate stuff and some being used to cut things.

Once you get used to it though, you can form mechanical models with this method very quickly. That's what can make MoI a nice companion modeler for a sub-d artist when you're working on non-organic shapes.

I know it can be frustrating to learn a different workflow. But really it's the different workflow that makes MoI especially useful, because it means it has a different set of strengths and weaknesses compared to sub-d modeling. If it just worked the same as sub-d modeling then there wouldn't as much of a unique value in using it.

Also check out here for some links to discussions and general tips for people who are coming from a sub-d / poly modeling background:
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=4865.2

- Michael
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 From:  Michael Gibson
6304.16 In reply to 6304.14 
Hi Denis,

> Hey Michael, if you need help with the web site, we can help you, if you want the help.

I appreciate the offer, but from a long term maintenance perspective I think I'd rather wait and do it myself so that I'll be more comfortable with any other future overhauls as well.

I've just been waiting to put any focus on it until after V3 is out. V3 has been a long time in coming partly because there was a big break between V2 and V3 for doing the Mac version development.

And actually to tell you the truth I sort of like to have a pretty minimalistic site anyways. I do want to spruce it up some though.

- Michael
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 From:  Mark (MARKG)
6304.17 In reply to 6304.16 
I, for one, love the way your discussion forum works. Like MoI, it's both simple and effective. It's one of the better ones out there.

My only nit: We "Log ON" and "Log OUT"

I always thought it was:

Log in <> Log out
Log on <> Log off
Wax on <> Wax off --er, not sure about that last one.
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 From:  Michael Gibson
6304.18 In reply to 6304.17 
Hi Mark, yeah Log "in" makes more sense to me too. I didn't specifically choose "Log on" myself, that's just what the forum software itself had set on it. That might be another thing I can tune up when I'm in web site tuneup mode after v3 is out.

- Michael
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 From:  Metin Seven (SEVENSHEAVEN)
6304.19 In reply to 6304.15 
Hi Michael,

Many thanks for your elucidation and the link. I'm definitely triggered by the workflow of NURBS. Some objects that can be created in a matter of minutes using NURBS can be quite a pain in the butt when using subdivision modeling, especially things like perfectly round shapes with clean cutouts.

The tesselation of MoI polygon exports is very good as well. Imported STLs in Blender look great.

Also, kudos for the sympathetic atmosphere around here. It reflects an admirable love for MoI, from the creator and the users. Something you won't find in large-scale publishing.
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 From:  Michael Gibson
6304.20 In reply to 6304.19 
Thanks Metin! :)

- Michael
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