Working with text option

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 From:  pete (PETERA)
622.1 
HI all, I'm another one of those newbies trying to get my head around 3d. At this stage I want to work with text, more complicated things can come later.

I've tried to create a single letter "P" in Aachen and then tried to fillet it. For some reason it won't work, the letter was 50 high and 15 thick with a radius of 5, (are these millimetres?). I've tried with both the solid shape and the edges selected. Obviously I'm doing smething wrong here, can someone please point me in the right direction?

Thanks

Peter
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 From:  Michael Gibson
622.2 In reply to 622.1 
Hi Peter, there is a bug in text that I've fixed for the next beta which should help out for some calculations.

You can work around the bug currently by creating curves instead of solids, then selecting the curves and doing Edit / Separate followed by Edit / Join, and then extruding those curves into solids. That will fix up one particular problem with the current Text command.

But I'm not sure if you are running into that problem, or just a general fillet difficulty.

Fillets tend to be a rather fragile and difficult area of calculation, if your font has a lot of little swoopy pieces in it, I wouldn't be surprised if it would be difficult to fillet it, you might only be able to fillet it at a pretty small radius.

I don't happen to have the Aachen font on my system here, can you please post a .3dm file that has a character you want to fillet and I will be able to give you more information by examining it.

But in general fillet works best in more simple situations where there aren't a lot of little edges and little pieces and sharp corners all over the place - Text can pretty easily be rather complex in this sense. Additionally a lot of fonts were not really ever meant to be used for 3D construction so they sometimes are made out of a bunch of little fragments instead of longer truly smooth pieces.

- Michael
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 From:  pete (PETERA)
622.3 In reply to 622.2 
Hi Michael,
Thanks for the quick reply. I've attached the file as requested.
Peter
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 From:  Michael Gibson
622.4 In reply to 622.3 
Hi Peter, in this case this actually looks like a pretty clean font that will be good for filleting.

But the problem you ran into is that a radius of 5.0 is far too large in proportion to the curved areas of the font.

A fillet cannot often be calculated if you ask for a radius larger or nearly the same size as the curvature of bendy parts of the model, or also if it would cause small edges of the model to become completely enveloped and disappear.

In this case, you can go up to about radius 2, but not much more than that. Here is what it looks like with radius 2.0 :



Generally it is pretty easy to overestimate the radius of what will fit on a particular shape. So if the first radius that you try doesn't produce any result, try going smaller and smaller and see if that will get you anything. Sometimes you may need to go down as small as 0.1 or possibly even smaller to get a result. It depends on how tightly bent the curves are on your particular model.

- Michael
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 From:  pete (PETERA)
622.5 In reply to 622.4 
Ah-ha, so that's it. Once again, thanks Michael, it looks like my learning curve/playtime has started :o)

I hope you don't mind another question, how would you raise a letter so that it is rounded. (That's what I was really trying to do with the filleting - increase the fillet until it met in the centre).

Peter
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 From:  Michael Gibson
622.6 In reply to 622.5 
Hi Peter, you mean you want a sort of rounded top on the letter instead of the regular flat surface on top?

One way to do that is to construct a rounded surface and then use Construct / Boolean / Difference to slice the letter with the surface.

Here is a recent example that shows some visual steps on how to do this by using sweep to build the rounded top surface: http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=606.4

Let me know if you need any additional details.

- Michael
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 From:  pete (PETERA)
622.7 In reply to 622.6 
Hi Michael,
It's not just a curved top, although that will come in handy as well. But more each stroke of the letter curved from background to background. I've attempted to attach a photo to show what I mean, hope it works. The example is't exactly the way I wanted it but it is along these lines.

Peter
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
622.8 In reply to 622.7 
As it's seems "variable fillet" maybe you must "cut" your model in several parts
Before variable fillet in Moi :)
---
Pilou
Is beautiful that please without concept!
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 From:  Jesse
622.9 In reply to 622.7 
Hi Pete,

You could try Elefont, it does 3D text in DXF or Povray format.

http://www.armanisoft.ch/webdesign/FrmDownloads.html

Jesse
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 From:  Michael Gibson
622.10 In reply to 622.7 
Hi Peter, I think you may be looking for something that is called a "Tapered Extrusion". MoI doesn't have a tool to do that automatically right now.

It's still possible to construct it, but you will have to use a variety of lower level tools.

To start with, create your text as curves instead of as a solid. You're going to need to use surfacing commands to build up your shape instead of having it start as a solid block from the beginning. This is actually a moderately complex type of shape to create, it isn't really a super easy beginning project, but I will try to guide you through it with some steps here.

Take the outside curve and use Construct / Offset to build an offset version of it inside. Repeat this with the inner "hole" curve. That should look something like this:



Now select the new offset curves, and move them in z. One easy way to do this is just by dragging them in the 3D view, look for the "z" straight snap line that will appear when you are nearby that direction. That looks like this:



Now select both of those curves and use Edit/Separate to break them into their component segments. You'll need to create the surfaces between these in smaller chunks. MoI probably won't be able to figure out the right connections between these pieces if you try to build it all in one step.

Now to build some surfaces, you select one pair of curves at a time (sometimes you may use Edit/Join to glue together 2 small segments into one larger one to match what is on the other side), and use Construct / Loft to build a surface between them. Here is what the first one looks like:



Repeat that all the way around in pieces until you have this:



That's basically the sloped sides of a raised shape. You could try putting in a cross section shape and using Construct / Sweep instead of just loft to have more detailed control over the shaping of these side sections. That's pretty involved and detailed work, I'm not going to go into that right now but let me know if you want a small sample of that.

Next, select the top curves and run Construct / Planar - this builds a planar surface which caps the top. Do the same thing for the bottom, and then select all these surfaces and use Edit / Join to join them together into a solid. That should look like this:



You may want to apply a fillet to this, possibly selecting just the top face, to round off some of those sharp edges.

Is that the more sort of graduated "rise from the background" type of shape that you were thinking of?


One other possible construction technique is to draw a central skeletal line down the middle, and raise that up in Z and draw connectors to different points. This will form 3 or 4 sided regions each of which can be surfaced by selecting the curves that make a ring and using Construct / Network. That looks like this:



I hope some of these ideas help!

Like I mentioned, this isn't really a very simple starting project. For something like this you generally will have to try to build it in smaller pieces and assemble the results into your final object.

If you need to do a lot of kind of raised relief work like this, you may be better off using a program that is more specialized just in creating relief-type models, such as ArtCAM.

- Michael

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 From:  pete (PETERA)
622.11 In reply to 622.10 
Micheal, your explanations are absolutely superb. Thank you for taking the time and trouble to explain this to me and I hope it benefits other people as well.

I was wrong when I said earlier that my example was not the best. It was absolutely lousy.

The best way I can describe the effect I wanted is to dip your finger in water and draw the letter P on a shiny surface, ( I know, I would have to think of this now, wouldn't I?).

I meant what I said about your explanations, they are superb. I can see this forum turning into some kind of a MoI "WOW"
book if this keeps up.

Thanks again
Peter

P.S. At this stage Artcam is just slightly outside my budget, but I'm working on that.
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
622.12 In reply to 622.11 
>dip your finger in water and draw the letter P on a shiny surface
On a fixed image : you can make the boolean intersection between your "P" and a "waving surface"
For the "shiny surface" moi can't yet make that :)

Or you want writing on a mirror? :)
But Just "P" is a little short ;)
---
Pilou
Is beautiful that please without concept!
My Gallery
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 From:  Michael Gibson
622.13 In reply to 622.11 
> The best way I can describe the effect I wanted is to dip your finger in
> water and draw the letter P on a shiny surface, ( I know, I would have
> to think of this now, wouldn't I?).

Hmmm, so I guess you mean a type of liquidy or bubble type shape?

It might be easier to understand if you had a closer example picture or sketch! :)


If you want something really rounded and liquid like, it won't be easy to manipulate that "P" character from that font into that. That's because that P has a bunch of sharp corners in it.

Smooth/bubbly/liquidy, and sharp crisp corners are not easy to combine together. They're almost like matter and anti-matter... :)

So If you want to create something very smooth and bubbly, you're better off drawing some curves to make a custom "P" form rather than using the crisp sharp letters from a regular text font and trying to produce smooth bubbles from that.

Here is another example - here I drew a couple of curves to form a path of a "P", and used Construct / Sweep to create a kind of tube that sort of drags a profile along that path. Is that closer to what you had in mind?




Another thing you may be interested in is this technique that uses sweeping with 2 rails to make "blob" type forms: http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=415.2

- Michael
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 From:  pete (PETERA)
622.14 In reply to 622.13 
Got it! That's the type of thing I was after. However I was sort of hoping I'd be able to take a flat letter from a regular font and round it out. But never mind, I'm getting close to what I want to see. Now its just a matter of playing with it. Thanks for all your help Michael. You can be sure I'll be a regular visitor here now.

Jesse, thanks for the link, I'll be looking at that soon.

Just a short note to Pilou:- my "P" is never too short because I stand close and lift the seat as a gentleman should ;o)

Regards
Peter
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