New Add point

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 From:  BurrMan
6084.1 
I'm really liking the new addition to add point!
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 From:  Michael Gibson
6084.2 In reply to 6084.1 
I'm glad you like it Burr!

It works by "Knot insertion" which basically means the surface will retain its same shape from before the point insertion but the control points will shift around with a new row and/or column added in the general area of where your target point is at.

If you use it on a very simple surface like a plane the first pick will end up adding a bunch of points because it also does what's called "degree elevation" to switch from a degree 1 surface (degree 1 is like a polyline, straight lines only between points) to a degree 3 stretchy surface, and that degree elevation step also adds points in too.

- Michael
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 From:  BurrMan
6084.3 In reply to 6084.2 
It's sweet, and the options are perfect! I've had to manually do this for quite awhile now....

Great job...
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 From:  bemfarmer
6084.4 
Tried out Add Point to the upper curve. Lower curve is unchanged.
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 From:  Mike K4ICY (MAJIKMIKE)
6084.5 
Oh man! Someone send me a clue next time... I miss the new Beta by two day! ;-)

Interesting.

The new point just kinda sneaks in there and the point structure undulates like a gentle surf scene.... ahh.
The Symmetry option is a great touch!

What is "Make Corner Point"?

Hmmm, Michael, I hope a "Subtract Point" is possible someday...

But great deal!
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 From:  Michael Gibson
6084.6 In reply to 6084.5 
Hi Mike,

> Oh man! Someone send me a clue next time... I miss the new Beta by two day! ;-)

It's still hot off the presses! I haven't even gotten to the official announcement quite yet.


> What is "Make Corner Point"?

"Make Corner Point" is only supposed to show up when you're adding points to a curve. When that's enabled when inserting a point on a curve if you then move that point around it will make a sharp corner in the curve.


> Hmmm, Michael, I hope a "Subtract Point" is possible someday...

Certainly someday, one problem is where to put it. For surface add point I was able to extend the already existing curve add point command which is always a major plus because it prevents UI bloat.

- Michael
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 From:  Michael Gibson
6084.7 
Kind of ran out of energy for today, the official announcement and release notes will have to wait until tomorrow.

- Michael
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 From:  wastzzz
6084.8 
Michael, I really need groups in moi. I can't live without them. I often have to make modular stuff and I am dying on that.
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 From:  Mike K4ICY (MAJIKMIKE)
6084.9 In reply to 6084.6 
OK, Thanks!

>Certainly someday, one problem is where to put it. For surface add point I was able to extend the already existing curve add point command which is always a major plus because it prevents UI bloat.

Just for development notation: I intuitively tried to hit the delete key and the "X" to make a knot disappear. (wishful thinking) ;-)

But I know if such a thing happened the user would have to be prepared for a surface that no longer followed the same curvature.


...Oh! I just discovered the ability to add a kink (corner) in regular curves! WOW!

This could be very useful.
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 From:  Michael Gibson
6084.10 In reply to 6084.8 
Hi wastzz,

> Michael, I really need groups in moi. I can't live without them. I often have
> to make modular stuff and I am dying on that.

It's still on my "todo" list, but unfortunately it's a highly time consuming area particularly for processing copied objects.

- Michael
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 From:  Michael Gibson
6084.11 In reply to 6084.9 
Hi Mike,

> Just for development notation: I intuitively tried to hit the delete key
> and the "X" to make a knot disappear. (wishful thinking) ;-)

Which knot would disappear though? Since there isn't currently any way to select a surface knot line there isn't a good way for me to know which particular knot line to remove when you push delete, that's the problem...

It probably needs a special command for it that shows you the different knot lines on the surface (which are certain surface isoparm lines, in between surface spans) and let you pick those.

- Michael
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 From:  Mike K4ICY (MAJIKMIKE)
6084.12 In reply to 6084.11 
Ok...

Michael, you'll have to forgive me for my lack of understanding, so the rows or columns represented by the points are not knots? Oh boy. :-/
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 From:  Michael Gibson
6084.13 In reply to 6084.12 
Hi Mike, Control points and knots are different things, both of them are things that go into the definition of the curve or surface though.

Knots set up what are called "basis functions" which is one thing that controls how much a particular control point affects the curve like if it pulls the curve more strongly towards the point or not. Then just to be even more confusing there is also another thing called "weights" that go on control points that also has a kind of similar "strength of pull" effect as well with the main difference being that the weights can pull in just the exact way to make conic section shapes like a circle or ellipse.

But the main type of thing that is usually removed for a NURBS surface is a knot, which then has a side effect of also removing a row of control points as well.

- Michael
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 From:  BurrMan
6084.14 In reply to 6084.12 
""""so the rows or columns represented by the points are not knots?""""""""

Here's a link to a good description thats understandable:

http://www.rhino3d.com/nurbs/

Look at the 3rd and 4th sections under "What is NURBS geometry"....
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 From:  Mike K4ICY (MAJIKMIKE)
6084.15 
Ahh... the venerable and all-important "filler" inside the hot dog required to make them "plump when you cook 'em". ;-)

And not so easy to understand:


Knots and Control Points
A common misconception is that each knot is paired with a control point. This is true only for degree 1 NURBS (polylines). For higher degree NURBS, there are groups of 2 x degree knots that correspond to groups of (degree+1) control points. For example, suppose we have a degree 3 NURBS with 7 control points and knots 0,0,0,1,2,5,8,8,8. The first four control points are grouped with the first six knots. The second through fifth control points are grouped with the knots 0,0,1,2,5,8. The third through sixth control points are grouped with the knots 0,1,2,5,8,8. The last four control points are grouped with the last six knots.






Maybe what I need to ask for is a way to remove control points.
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 From:  Michael Gibson
6084.16 In reply to 6084.15 
Hi Mike,

> Maybe what I need to ask for is a way to remove control points.

That could be possible, but there are some complications - the number of knots and control points are related, so if you remove a control point you also have to remove a knot as well and then you have to decide do you want the other control points to shift in position or do you want the other control points to stay where they were which instead could make the surface kind of mutate strangely in shape with a shifted knot vector.

If you want to do a lot of surface control point manipulation, sub-d modeling tends to be a better tool for that...

- Michael
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