@Andrei:I have no Idea why but a lot of users underestimate LOFT.

Maybe because is not so intuitive like you think
Many users prefer to draw contour lines to get an immediate feedback an preview how will be the shape,than draw sections,so Network is most obvious tool..simple to understand
Others,usually Cad users,use sweep that give more precision...or maybe not...
Could really depend by age :)
People used some methods for years have difficult to imagine to get a shape using SAMARDAC FREESTYLE LOFT ™
It require some kind of "elastic mind" to imagine before how will be the shape without contour lines
you know.."elasticity" decrease when age goes up ;)

anway:there are some cases you MUST use loft,this is an example i did in the past






M

Mauro,
Yep I agree with you.
But In many cases it is most intuitive then any other tools for example, you car. I think LOFT is the most intuitive way to build it.

I think developers of Rhino or Michael just do not promote this method (because it is not so precise) that is why people think it is not god. But a lot of people do not make 100% precise models. No need. And simple and fast method like LOFT would be great for them.


And - Loose, Exact, it is not on the first place in menu and it is need time to find it and to understand how it works. So it is not "in your face" like sweep or network.

As I can see people slowly start to use it and get good results, so I think it will take its place in MOI modelling.


Anyway great FIAT, I like it!!! (You looks like true patriot :D)
Especially that small tube on the roof)))) Looks like it can go under water)))

Mauro, great work, respect!

Thanks..that car really existed in 1958
it was a prototype designed by Pininfarina

""""""""""Others,usually Cad users,use sweep that give more precision...or maybe not...""""""""""""

While loft is a great tool, and used a lot, by many, including me, it is not doing what is stated in this post.

Although it IS making nice looking G1 surfaces, and there is nothing wrong with that, it is not making G2-3-4-5-6-7 etc blends.

I know he believes that he is, but it's just not the case. And G2 is actually wanted/needed by some, so the method has to change if that's what's desired.

The correct statement made is, "it looks good to me and works for me".... But, "Loft replaces Blend and watch me do G2, G3 etc." is incorrect and misleading to others here that are watching and learning.

So, it certainly is nice to see someone's workflow. I think we all enjoy that. But, there has to be some type of understanding.

BurrMan

>I know he believes that he is, but it's just not the case. And G2 is actually wanted/needed by some, so the method has to change if that's what's desired.
The correct statement made is, "it looks good to me and works for me".... But, "Loft replaces Blend and watch me do G2, G3 etc." is incorrect and misleading to others here that are watching and learning.


Left bottle connected with Loft, right with Blend.
As you can see no differences. The same thing I can made with G2,G3..

We can say more about Loft..let's jump back in past
Origin of all was Rhino
Rhino started as Autocad plug-in
It was required by Boat designers,they needed new tools in Acad to draw them
Main method was to draw sections of the hull and then Loft
We can say that Loft,maybe,was the tool that started all..and if we are here now,maybe is just thanks to it
In fact,first developer and creator of Rhino was Michael(yes..."our" Michael.. :) )
(please correct-me if i said wrong things)


We already discussed together about G2 here:
http://moi3d.com/forum/messages.php?webtag=MOI&msg=6063.1
no need to repeat same things ;)
Andrei you won your battle to export Moi out of CAD's borders
but It still remain a CAD software,so you must expect some serious users like Burr want to clarify some statements
Nobody is against you..it's the opposite...you have many appreciations from lot of users,you helped them to semplify Moi's learning curve
Sometime,if someone want to correct your workflow,is just to improve it,and teach correctly

The End

p.s.

Dear Andrei:when i did 500 Car i customized it with Moi's brand
the crew i imagined was Michael like pilot(..obvious..) and i needed also a co-pilot..but who??
No doubts my choice was Burr..who else?? :) :)

Mauro ,

> We can say that Loft,maybe,was the tool that started all..and if we are here now,maybe is just thanks to it

so do not forget you roots)))

MOI is Cad soft for CAD designer and 3D modeler for Artists.
If it is good for 3D artist why they can not use it? Just becouse it is "It still remain a CAD software"? Can not see any barriers :) Only barriers are in our heads.

>if someone want to correct your workflow,is just to improve it,and teach correctly
No problem he posted his opinion I answer to it. What is wrong? :)

>No doubts my choice was Burr..who else?? :) :)
May be you know him, I do not know, my opinion about him is based on posts he made...

Just found one disadvantage. To connect "non planar" surfaces like this with LOFT, it is need some experience, so it would be hard for beginners to loft it. Blend works easier in this situation, just one click.
New blend is great, so it is better to use it in complicated surfaces.

Made with LOFT:




But If you want to make complex blend like this, LOFT is irreplaceable.

Hello,

Perhaps this picture will illustrate why using the entire toolset is appropriate to making visually pleasing models in many areas. Starting from the left, matched edges G0 to the far right G3. The shape was obviously not lofted, and the notations are seen to show the continuity issues present with each model, e.g. the matched surfaces with the pink tags are G1, but are not G2. You begin to see the differences in those different levels of smoothness when that matched edge is G2 and higher. I'd be hard pressed to find an industry where higher level continuity isn't found in products, anything from automotive to consumer goods. I'm pretty sure you can't get any higher order continuity using loft in MoI, but if one wants to learn how to model with a higher surface quality it's good to learn all the tools in the toolbox.

""""""""""Left bottle connected with Loft, right with Blend. As you can see no differences."""""""""

Like I said: """""""The correct statement made is, "it looks good to me and works for me"....

""""""""No problem he posted his opinion I answer to it. What is wrong?""""""""

My post was not "opinion"...... If you reverse the roles in this statement, then you're on to something.

"""""""my opinion about him is based on posts he made..."""""""""

Hey, we're the same that way!

I mean, I was watching a thread a few weeks ago, and a guy that makes multi million dollar plastic injection moulds for a living commented, and you told him he doesnt know what he's talking about!

It rememinded me of a scenario where a 13 year old was in his mom's house playing a jet pilot video game, and an actual Jet pilot walked in, and the little guy told the pilot he doesnt know what he's talking about! The pilot shrugged and left the room, and you were yelling "Show me YOUR high score... Show me YOUR high score...... as he left".

OSTexo,

I 'm not sure I understand what you wanted to say but any way, in MOI there are G1 and G2 BLEND so these are their analogs with LOFT.



PS
In my previous post I make mistake, I showed G2 not G1. But as I can see no one here notice it.

OSTexo,


>the matched surfaces with the pink tags are G1, but are not G2
I do not understand it. It is marked as G2 but you say it is G1. Or what do you mean?

Hi Andrei - for G2 and G3 that's all about matching curvature properties so that 2 surfaces have equal curvature (for G2) or rate of change of curvature (for G3) where 2 surfaces meet.

This just does not come into play so much when things are only flat planes or straight lines, like in your cylinder case there the direction you are matching is totally flat. That's basically a kind of special case, it's much harder to manually match curvature values when the thing you're matching is bending around instead of totally straight, I think you realized that in one of your previous posts where you were talking about doing a blend between spheres. If you measure your Loft result in that sphere case you're going to find that it's not so easy to make even a G1 result, let alone G2 or G3 just by doing a loose loft.

Even that sphere case is still kind of limited in that it has constant curvature in all spots, if you were to try a fully general freeform surface like cut a hole in your helicopter body and then try to do a G3 surface coming off of that just by using Loft you're going to find that it's just not going to work... It's too hard to manually figure out where to place each section curve in a general case like that, for a cylinder case it's a very limited case and you can just move profiles in one direction for that one. That will only help you if you are only modeling cylinders though, it's not a fully general technique for use with any kind of freeform surface.

- Michael

Yep Michael,
I agree with you, and I said the same thing in my previous post with spheres -

"To connect "non planar" surfaces like this with LOFT, it is need some experience, so it would be hard for beginners to loft it. Blend works easier in this situation, just one click. New blend is great, so it is better to use it in complicated surfaces."

Hello Andrei,

If you read and understood my post attached with my screenshot you would see that I said from left to right, G0 to G3. I never said the far left matched surfaces are G1, they are G0. I think I made that clear in my explanation, so I have no idea why you would say my far left example in the screenshot was G1. The tags are meant to show what the matched surfaces aren't.

I wouldn't say your lofted surfaces in your example are anything but G0, or at most G1, and if they are G1 and that has nothing to do with ones modeling "experience" and everything to do with how MoI will create that surface match from that loft command, since you don't actually know what continuity they are.

I think the shaded curvature analysis you provided makes my point quite well. The lofted and blended cylinders are obviously not the same, if you think so you are not interpreting the data properly. It's not that I'm not noticing your mistakes in this discussion, it's more of a realization that you don't have a good grasp of what continuity is and its benefits to the modeler. My original post wasn't really entirely directed at you, at the very least I hope it made others consider the great variety of tool options and methods available to them.

New beta seems faster !! just a seat of the pants observation :)
Can't wait to see whats in there

shayne

ps Andrei does love his loft

Hi Mickael , very good tip thanks

but excuse my stupid question, but how do you do a simple point ?

I only see the " add a point " (on a curve) tool..

Hi alexx, look under Draw curve > More > Point, that will allow you to place a "point object".

- Michael