Very cool Andrei...I really like your method and it provides a whole new dimension to MOI (especially if Michael adds the loft to point).
One question....Do you use the normal or loose option in your loft method?
Thanks!

Niko, Thanx)
I use only - Loose. Normal will not able to get this Sub-D like deformations.
Also use Exact. For example this hull was modeled with Exact. Other function do not work good in different cases.

>I really like your method and it provides a whole new dimension to MOI (especially if Michael adds the loft to point).

Michael is going to add loft to point, it will good upgrade.
I have some thoughts on how to make loft more advanced or may be make alternative version of MOI -Freestyle, where Loft will be on the first place, like push/pull in Sketch Up. It will have less commands and cost cheaper. But Michael works one and it's hard for him to lead 2 projects.
Also I'm afraid that Michael is not very interested in this not precise method. He concentrates more on CAD type modeling tools.
But I think there is a lot of users from Art department where precision is not so critical and they will be glad to use moi for their needs. With it's ability to export different polygonal cage it can be very useful for game creating assets especially in hard surface.
Any way, MOI now has all tools that is absolutely enough for me. And all that I said above is just thoughts that may be not very good:))

me again - sorry!

The Modelling method works very well and I got the hull shape quite well.
But another problem occures now:
When trying to trimm the windows, some are working well,
but with others, the hull-shape gets broken.

What I'm doing wrong here?
Window path is the same like the ones which worked.

thanks again!
Mike

Hi Mike, you can get weird looking "leaky trims" like that if the trimming boundaries have little self-intersecting loops in them.

It would help to see what's going on in your particular case if you could post a 3DM model file with the particular surface and cutting curve that is causing you problems with trim, it's much easier to give feedback about a problem when being able to look at the actual geometry instead of only a screenshot.

Is it possible that the cutting curve is not entirely on the surface? If it's some kidn of warped 3D curve that is not actually on the surface that can make for some difficulties with Trim. It's usually best to trim with a 2D profile curve instead of a warped 3D one. Trim will automatically project 2D cutting curve so you don't need to do any separate step of trying to get the trim curves to follow the surface manually if that's what you've been trying to do.

But again if you can post a 3DM model file that makes it a lot easier to see what in particular is going on, there are potentially many different kinds of things that can be problematic, like if you had any little loops or overshoots in the trim curves or if they were not actually closed curves that could cause generally similar looking problems.

- Michael

Hi Michael,

sorry I cannot post that file cause its confidential.

The shape I trimmed is a 2d curve which projects in front of the hull model.
The other curves (like Image 1) are exactly the same and worked well.

So I think its, what you mentioned, the little loops problem.
But how can I check this?
Or how can I solve this?

thanks
MIke

Hi Mike, unfortunately it's really difficult to help you very effectively without seeing your objects. You don't need to post an entire model, just the one surface that you are trimming and the one cutting curve would do.

If you want to keep it confidential you can e-mail them to me at moi@moi3d.com.

If you can't send anything at all, then the main thing you'd want to do is closely examine the cutting curve, zoom in to them very closely and look for anomalies. Turn on control points and pull them around and look at how it deforms, if there is any "back tracking" with the curve coming back over itself (which makes it self intersecting). Look at the object type indicator in the upper right corner of the window when the curve is selected, does it read "Closed crv" or just plain "crv". Try squishing it down in the top or side view and see if it gets a "flat" snap or not - if it does not then it's not actually planar. Those are some of the various things I would do myself to investigate the cutting curve to see if it is well formed or not. There are possibly some other kinds of diagnostic methods that I'm not thinking of right now off the top of my head, it's much more normal for someone to post the geometry to get help and then I examine the geometry closely.

Also it's pretty rare but occasionally some kinds of display problems are actually just bugs in the display mechanism itself and not problems with the geometry. One way to test for that is to do a test export to a polygon mesh format like OBJ and see if it looks different in the export mesher than it does in the modeling display.

- Michael

oh, when I use "boole mix" instead of trimm
it works!

?

regards
MIke

Hi Mike, and for this part:

> Or how can I solve this?

If the cutting curve has a self-intersecting loop in it you need to repair or redraw the curve before you'll be able to use it as a cutting object.

- Michael

Hi Mike,

> oh, when I use "boole mix" instead of trimm
> it works!
>
> ?

If you do indeed have a self-intersecting curve in some cases the weird leaking effect can be contained in a very small area and be hard to notice right away.

If that happens it can possibly come back to bite you later on.

Again, it's hard to know exactly what you're seeing without being able to examine the geometry...

- Michael

mike,
If it's sounds complicated for you to make what Michael suggest, try to extrude those curve without caps to intersect hull, and then use trim or Boolean difference.
Anyway 3dm file would be very useful. You can remove all stuff except hull and that curve and sent it to Michael)

Hi Everyone,

I was wondering if I could ask for your feedback and comments, regarding a cruise ship design project.

I am working on developing a cruise ship concept model through an appropriate software package (I have explored Tribon and AVEVA, though need new current licenses for these).

Its for a large cruise ship, greater than 350 m in length (on the order of Allure of the Seas in terms of facilities and accommodation, for 1100 large cabins).

I want to be able to produce enough detail useful enough for a shipyard to provide cost estimation, based on a package of provisional GAs and specifications.

However I am seeking a way to do this through a pre-built CAD based cruise ship model that could be modified, in terms of length, beam, excetera, to be able to create such a provisional shipyard package, with the expectation I could have a proper naval architecture job subsequently completed, from the ground up, to produce a drawing package that is ready for fabrication.

I would need to find a source for this CAD cruise ship model, and a method to accomplish this provisional package work with the model, and have a Naval Architect check and sign off on it.

For example, there is a cruise model in .dae format, at:

https://grabcad.com/library/cruise-ship-designed-in-google-sketchup-1

The specifications of the cruise ship are not clear, and I am trying to clarify on this. However, it appears to be a cruise ship model similar to the requirements I seek, and which could be potentially modified to meet the requirements of the concept model which needs to be created. Could I ask you for your opinion on this ? Perhaps convert it to an .iges model ? Maybe, it could be lengthened, and built further upon ?

I was trying explore how one could take this model in .dae, and convert it into a useful format.

I was wondering if you would be able to provide any useful information or guidance on how I could accomplish this.

I am up against the wall…lol… I am hoping you can help me with any suggestions.

I will look very forward to hearing from anyone knowledgeable here, and thank you very much for any few minutes you could spare me.

Kind Regards, Respectfully,

Dan

Yes Sketchup can maybe help you in very detailed model ;) (box modeling cool as before project )
But seems Rhino will be more adapted if you don't want use a specialised program! 1100 large cabins !!! (nurbs modeling better for exact geometry! )

Some ships with Sketchup ;)
http://karanak.deviantart.com/
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php/234083-Making-of-Dreadnought
It's Sketchup modeling! by Karanak

Some other thoughts that I sent to Dan through e-mail were to check out the Orca marine design plug-in to Rhino, and also to look for models on GrabCAD.

- Michael

Hello,

I'm assuming this is a conceptual exercise? While not a naval architect by trade I have sat in on several discussions on surfacing and analysis for that industry and I don't think the issue is nearly as simple as finding an existing model and scaling parts up and down. Before pulling/pushing surfaces and volumes around you might want to have a talk with people experienced with such projects so you don't send them something that is either impossible to price and construct so you don't incur wasted time.

Offtopic, but Karanak's work is mindblowing. I've never done much experimenting with Sketchup; but I may have to try it...
Ron

Yes, it is amazing what some artists can do in their favorite tool of choice. I've seen organic models created with Sub-D plugins in SketchUp (my lightcycle tutorial an example) and all kinds of hard surface models done in Zbrush and 3D Coat. But to be honest, I think Michael has mentioned it before, but sometimes it's just plain easier to use a tool which is setup for a specific type of modeling. Just as one wouldn't use MoI to model cartoon characters for animation, I wouldn't use SketchUp to create organic shapes or even highly *iterative* detailed shapes like this one, which I believe much was done in MoI.

<< I wouldn't use SketchUp to create organic shapes
sure!

<< or even highly *iterative* detailed shapes like this one
not sure !

ken28875 with Sketchup ;)
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt12/ken28875

Thanks kindly to everyone for their comments, I greatly appreciate this. I realize there is quite a variety of backgrounds on this forum, and alot of talent here in developing wonderful sketches and concept drawings !

OSTexo: This is the start of a detailed design project. There is a need to come up with an initial concept which could be assessed from a naval architecture perspective. Don't have any naval architects to help me at this stage. Given cruise ships have been designed and built for some time now, from small to mega size, there is an expectation generic models are available and could be used, corresponding to a given size category, in terms of lightweight, GT, length. However finding a suitably sized model that could be imported into an analysis program, is where I don't have leads. What will happen in due course is that a naval architect will create their own concept model to meet the performance requirements. Just in dire need to get something initial developed.

Micheal Gibson: Thank you very much for these suggestions. That model at grabcad.com looks like a great lead ! I'm trying to figure out how to convert those kinds of models into useful formats for naval design concept analysis.

Pilou: Thank you for your feedback on this. There is alot of talent here to create detailed sketches ! Wow. The thing I would like to determine is to what extent could one take a sketch based model, done in .dae format, and convert it into a useful file that could be used for initial hydrostatic & hydrodyamic analysis, hull design. A NURBS model would be a good bet it seems. I tried to export a mesh model from AutoCAD into a format useful for hull design, but ran into some problems. Could Rhino be a reliable route ? I have not tinkered with it before.

DH

Hi Pilou,

The Maelstorm is insane, 45-50 days of work too ... if it's artist days, it's probably the double in fact :P

Anyway I wish one day we could do something that complex in MoI, but we need a little help of Michael for that, like any sort of group system, and instances to limit the memory usage.
A library system with an easy drag/drop/align/scale feature would be amazing too, to speed up the 'greeble' work.

Hi Frenchy!

I'm pretty familiar with what can be done with SketchUp. I've beta tested some of the top plugins including ones by Dale Martens and ThomThom. The image you show I don't really consider organic-- nor iterative. By iterative, I mean being able to easily make more and more changes to a model.

You may know Pete Stoppel, who goes by the handle Solo. He's the best I've seen and did these in SU with the Artisan plugin rendered in SU. They are definitely organic!



For many, it's not the tool but the artist. Still, some tools are better at different things-- is all I'm saying.