Hi Michael and all, recently peoples models that they have shared on GrabCAD have been downloaded and then reposted on other websites without either crediting the artist/designer or asking their permission, is there a possibility that in the future a security feature could be built in into the 3DM file that would embed the authors details into the file as a read only attribute for every other user other than the original creator ? i.e tied into licence and local registry to help prevent these types of copyright theft ?

I know we share things at our own peril but it would be nice if you could point someone to a command such as "ShowAuthor" that it would then reveal the said authors name and company info if any along with the date time that the file was last saved. I know it sounds a bit big brother, but for people who do 3D as a hobby and as a means of trying to break into the 3D industry this could be a real life saver being able to prove you are the owner of a given model being touted by another as their own work

Martin Spencer-Ford

I can see one thing that would need to be considered - is if you make templates that have various settings but contain no 3D data would the author's details still be embedded into the documents?

What if, and I have done this before but not in MoI, you use geometry as a reference and you build a housing around another 3D model. Then when you are done with your model or housing you then delete the original model leaving the geometry that you made, thus only your creation exists. However, according to the file the model belongs to someone else.

I see more headaches than anything else.

Just my two coppers.

Hi Martin, there are some general fields in the 3DM file for author - I've recently blanked those out for 3DM files that MoI writes out though, because a different user complained about the exact opposite, that their Windows user name was embedded in the file without them wanting it to be.

But if you open up the 3DM file in Rhino, you can then in Rhino start a new file, then import your 3DM file from MoI and save it out, and it will then contain your Windows user name in the author section of the 3DM file.

It's very easy though for someone to remove the author field using various ways, just exporting it to some other format like STEP and reloading it again or something like that would not round trip the author field. It's not really something that you can rely on to be a secure mechanism.

It's very difficult to make a secure mechanism while at the same time being able to share your geometry for general use with others, those things are basically inherently at odds with one another. In order to make a secure mechanism you would need to distribute the model using some kind of special file format that only one specialized reader application would be able to read rather than in a general file format that is specifically oriented towards full interoperable sharing of the geometry.

- Michael

Shade Professional and Shade 3D for Unity has a lock feature, which allows one to lock a file, meaning once the file is shared people can only look at the file, play around with it, but can't re-save or add something to the file, nor copy or pasting works. If this would be useful remains to be seen. However, people with a deep knowledge of Shade can bypass this security mechanism also...

Regards
Stefan

That never crossed my mind Mjs - yeah that could be a headache for sure, but i am sure that talented programmers could account for this eventuality and make templates and imported geometry from third parties greyed out or even translucent so they could still be used but not embedded into the saved project files ... But yeah it would probably be more trouble than it's worth.

Martin Spencer-Ford

Thanks Michael - I did indeed know about the rhino/Open3DM feature to add author/creator details, but as you have said, all you need is a decent text editor and it's bye bye details, I just wondered if there was a part of the file header that could be encrypted and thus be hidden from prying eyes. As a former internet security advisor in the past (thank God i don't do that role any-more) It's never a good idea to store computer user names in a plain text fashion, it's just itching to be abused by a hacker and would obviously be a source for social engineering. Most large scale industries know the basic rules these days but private users are still slow catching up, but are far less a target unless they happen to be a sub-contracted employee for a large corporation, but again in that role the corp should take responsibility for the security issues.

All the best - Michael ( I still love MoI)

Hi Stefan - Thanks for the reply, that would be a nice feature, but it's not what I was looking for.

It's been a long time since i did programming and working directly with file allocation tables. My problem is a recent one and has highlighted a weakness to me. One of my models was taken freely from GrabCAD and posted on a Chinese equivalent where people have to earn credits to be able to download, so effectively making my model no longer free for all to enjoy.

Between these two events I had a back-up drive go belly up on me and a lot of the files were heavily corrupted and could not be salvaged from the drive, my model was among those files. I duly went and downloaded my work files back from GrabCAD, but since it's a copy of a copy that's gone from one drive to another as a "new file" the dates and times those files were created are all different from when i created the model, thus technically speaking, I can't prove when I created the file any more leaving me wide open for someone else to claim its copyright based on date. I don't mind in this case as I shared my file freely and I suppose one could say it's my own fault for sharing it. But it has highlighted this issue to me should I produce something I might not want to freely share in the future.

All the best

Martin Spencer-Ford

Hi Martin,

> I just wondered if there was a part of the file header that could be encrypted
> and thus be hidden from prying eyes.

There's currently no mechanism in the 3DM file format for encrypting that particular header information, for a major change in the 3DM format itself you'd probably want to ask the Rhino guys about making any changes in that area, they're the ones that make the 3DM file toolkit for reading and writing 3DM files.

It is possible to put in custom chunks of application or plug-in specific data into 3DM files, so it could be possible to store encrypted information into the file that way, but it would be separate from the standard author header field and no other programs that read 3DM files would know how to do anything with that information and would just skip it...

- Michael

Hi Michael - you're up early or very late :)

Thanks for the reply ... speedy as usual

>>It is possible to put in custom chunks of application or plug-in specific data into 3DM files, so it could be possible to store encrypted information into the file that way, but it would be separate from the standard author header field and no other programs that read 3DM files would know how to do anything with that information and would just skip it...<<

That's cool, I will have a natter with the guys at rhino ... It's just for copyright dates and times more than anything, so even the creators name is not that important, but would add a little extra to the evidence side of things should it ever be needed, and as such, third party applications should be leaving it intact or ignoring it anyway so the chain of creation times does not get broken.

Many thanks for your time Michael ...

Martin Spencer-Ford

write your name at something like .00005 and place it into the model in some inconspicuous place. :o

Hi Burr, that actually might not a bad way to do it, putting it in as actual geometry could then have a greater possibility of actually coming through different types of file exports like STEP or IGES transfers too...

- Michael

Ah Burman - you're a star ... never even thought of that one either - Damn i am getting old


Martin Spencer-Ford

Yeah, or "3 points at 6 miles away!!!" lol

Maybe we can start a thread about the best way to "stamp" a model in such a way... Maybe you could think about if theres a way to do some type of micro geometry stamp from your side Michael?

Anyway.... This was a new twist. Usually the chinese hacker websites are stealing stuff and giving it away for free!!! People are weird.

Strange what some folks will do for a little "Kudos" ... I know they are behind another great wall, but at least pass it on in the same spirit as it was given - But i love that scale to real size ratio, you'd need some real good eyes to see that!

Martin Spencer-Ford

Hi Burr,

> Maybe you could think about if theres a way to do some type of micro geometry
> stamp from your side Michael?

Nothing really comes to mind that would be any different than just creating text and just scaling it down...

Do you mean something like apply the text as some kind of invisible watermark? I guess it could be possible to encode information in different ways but the good thing about just having plain curves is that any program that displays the geometry would work to see the text just if they know where to go zoom in on.

- Michael

steganography galore!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steganography




fortunately, we don't have any forum avatars in here :P..but the whole process is rather intriguing. this will be a big thing in the upcoming 3d-printing vs copyrights war(s).

I was thinking more that just free floating text could get left by some type of tranform.

I was wondering about a "stamp" that could localize enough resolution to perform the action at such a small scale. Like, enter the text, then, wherever you pick a point, the bounds of the text, at some miniscule scale, would allow the density/resolution, to perform the action. The text would need to be "attached" to the model somehow. I was considering that "super minuscule numbers" wouldnt boolean and such. Or, how could you join just curves to a solid, like trim them into the surface...

Maybe just "scale the model by 1000 times, then boolean text and scale it back down?

If your text is in the faraway space
Make in the 3 views : Select visible objects / Inverse Selection/ erase

- if your your text is not an object
Select all Objects / inverse selection / erase

if your text is an object it's appear in the Browser!
So easy to earase it :)

etc...

You are trapped in any case! :)

Hi Frenchy - You could for instance make the tiny copyright notice in the tire tread of a car model or on the windscreen etc, if they don't know it's there and it's part of the model and on the appropriate layer they would never find it unless they knew exactly where you placed it. Remember the old saying, the best way to hide something is to leave it in plain sight

Martin Spencer-Ford

Here's a cube. Nothing up my sleeve!

"Meshing" looses it. Probably wont be any "catch all"