Hi Martin,

> <...> so that the highlighted parts are the ONLY ones to
> display as hidden edges/lines?

That is how it works currently - if you have it enabled only edges of selected solids or surfaces will be get the hidden line display.

This new setting does not have any effect on "standalone curves" though, meaning curve objects like a drawn line or circle or something that are not edges of a solid or a surface.

It didn't really seem to make sense to apply this setting to selected standalone curves, because selected standalone curves already draw on top of everything so selected curves do not get drawn in the hidden-line style at all.


> The reason I ask is because I tried out the new feature on a
> drawing which contains curves that are submerged into or behind
> a solid, and it would have been helpful for clarity and ease of
> snapping, if these (unselected) curves had not been visible alongside
> the edges of the selected solid.

If the unselected hidden-line curves were getting in your way your best bet would be to just temporarily disable the entire hidden-line display, there is a shortcut for that in the View palette in the side pane, you don't have to go all the way into the Options dialog for that one.

Or just in general if stuff is getting in your way you can select it and hide it to get it out of the way.


But basically this new mode is to help manage edges not standalone curves - usually it's normal to have a lot more edges being displayed on screen than curves.

- Michael

Hi Michael.

Sorry to come back again, but I don't know if I made my point very well before.

This is how I think it could work better for me.

Switch off 'Display hidden lines' and switch on 'Hidden edges on selected only'. Then, when selected, only the hidden wireframe edges of parts would be visible and snap-able, and would clear the display of all the other hidden lines/curves that I'm not interested in at that moment.

Here's my video attempt to help explain what I mean, by showing the wireframes of just the block and surface (by keeping the mouse button pressed) whilst noticing that the lower portion of the red circle remains unselectable by the 'Display hidden lines' being turned off.


http://screencast.com/t/BqcmuRuIdkpI

 Thanks for looking again.


Martin(2).

Hi Martin, I'm sorry I'm still not entirely sure if I understand you correctly.

> Switch off 'Display hidden lines' and switch on 'Hidden edges on selected only'.
> Then, when selected, only the hidden wireframe edges of parts would be visible
> and snap-able, <....>

Ok, so you're saying that when "Display hidden lines" was turned off, there would still be some hidden edge display being shown? If so then that's problematic that the setting would seem to say that no hidden lines would be shown yet you are talking about showing some...

I think it's pretty important to be able to turn off the hidden line display entirely, that's what happens with the first "Display hidden lines" checkbox being on or off. There is also a shortcut for that under the View palette. It's useful to be able to totally turn off the hidden line display in just one spot because if you have some hidden lines cluttering up your display it lets you definitely clear them all by going to just one control and clicking it.

That's why the new "hidden edges on selected only" only modifies how edges are displayed _if_ hidden edge display is enabled, it allows you to still totally disable all hidden lines by using the other "Display hidden lines" checkbox the same as before.

Hopefully the new option for also controlling the hidden-line display of edges only on selected objects will help to manage them in some situations without needing to do a full on or off, but I think it's still a good idea to have a sort of master on/off switch still though.

- Michael

Magnificent amount of work Michael!


> Implement view spinning - Add a script method for view spinning that can be set on a keyboard shortcut:

This is awesome!!!

It really works great as a companion to "Free Rotation" view manipulation mode!


After 'spinning', the only way I've found to reset the view back to the original horizontal-0 if this was implemented in "Rotate Around World Axis Z" mode is to switch to "Free Rotation" mode then back to World Axiz Z, where the view port will reset.


But yes! You can now rotate the 'ortho' viewports which helps you to get a better look at your work.

Reset the spin angle in ortho views by clicking on its your current view's activation button twice... (right>left>right) Cool!


Also, would it be someday feasible to implement 'Spin' with other viewport manipulation methods, such as with a View Control button for fine-tuning, or maybe a way to do it on the fly with mouse manipulation?

Thanks!

Hi Mike, I'm glad the view spinning will be useful!

> Also, would it be someday feasible to implement 'Spin' with
> other viewport manipulation methods, such as with a View
> Control button for fine-tuning, or maybe a way to do it on
> the fly with mouse manipulation?

It's possible, but re: view control button - it's good in general to avoid having a zillion buttons clogging up the screen, and re: mouse manipulation all the regular buttons like middle button drag, wheel spin and right button drag are already occupied by options so it would have to go on some kind of modifier key and I'm pretty conservative about populating those too.

- Michael

Hi Michael.


<<Hi Martin, I'm sorry I'm still not entirely sure if I understand you correctly.
** Well I know what I think I want, but it's not always easy for me to get that across :) **


<<Ok, so you're saying that when "Display hidden lines" was turned off, there would still be some hidden edge display being shown?
** ONLY on the part that is selected and along with 'Hidden edges on selected only' being turned ON. **


<<If so then that's problematic that the setting would seem to say that no hidden lines would be shown yet you are talking about showing some...
** Yes, but only in line with what seems possible under Options i.e. 'Hidden edges on selected only' is still shown as enabled. So as it stands, we can disable 'Display hidden lines' and still have 'Hidden edges on selected only' ticked, yet that option doesn't seem to work without the former being selected. **


<<I think it's pretty important to be able to turn off the hidden line display entirely, that's what happens with the first "Display hidden lines" checkbox being on or off. There is also a shortcut for that under the View palette. It's useful to be able to totally turn off the hidden line display in just one spot because if you have some hidden lines cluttering up your display it lets you definitely clear them all by going to just one control and clicking it.

That's why the new "hidden edges on selected only" only modifies how edges are displayed _if_ hidden edge display is enabled, it allows you to still totally disable all hidden lines by using the other "Display hidden lines" checkbox the same as before.

Hopefully the new option for also controlling the hidden-line display of edges only on selected objects will help to manage them in some situations without needing to do a full on or off, but I think it's still a good idea to have a sort of master on/off switch still though.

- Michael

** Basically, my thought was to remove the link between 'Display hidden lines' and 'Hidden edges on selected only', so that disabling 'Display hidden lines' doesn't stop 'Hidden edges on selected only' from working on its own with selected objects. My hope was that this would allow complex geometry to exist behind solids and surfaces without them getting in the way by being selectable.

Whilst my suggestion would need both options to be off to disable viewing of all hidden lines - and I do take on-board what you say about hiding things - I think It'd still be a useful option for isolating the object where the scene is busy with curves that can't necessarily be conveniently hidden and are hampering the workflow.

I've staged a rather unconvincing video of how some mock-complex curves show through a 3d shape and 'obstructs' me when all I really want to do is access the hidden edges of the selected solid. I hope you get the idea though **


http://screencast.com/t/4ubg7Rjr



Martin(2).

Hi Martin,

> > <<Ok, so you're saying that when "Display hidden lines" was> > turned off, there would still be some hidden edge display being shown?
> ** ONLY on the part that is selected and along with 'Hidden edges
> on selected only' being turned ON. **

Ok, but wouldn't that be weird to have a control that say "Display hidden lines" and you have it unchecked, yet still some hidden lines are being displayed somewhere? That's what could happen if it worked like you described.

It's just far more simple if the control that says "Display hidden lines" when turned off means that there are not any hidden lines being shown...


> ** Yes, but only in line with what seems possible under Options i.e.
> 'Hidden edges on selected only' is still shown as enabled. So as it stands,
> we can disable 'Display hidden lines' and still have 'Hidden edges on selected
> only' ticked, yet that option doesn't seem to work without the former
> being selected. **

Yes, that's correct and how it's intended to be set up right now - the "Hidden edges on selected only" checkbox only has any effect on the hidden line display (and only on edges in there as well), so if the hidden line display is turned off (Display hidden lines unchecked) then it won't do anything at that moment. I guess I could hide or gray out the second control when hidden lines are actually turned off, but that's a pretty small cosmetic detail and sometimes that can actually be fairly annoying to have UI that is displayed but not able to actually be set until you go somewhere else.


> Whilst my suggestion would need both options to be off to disable
> viewing of all hidden lines - <....>

From my point of view this is a very significant drawback... Enough so that the negatives of what you are proposing to me seem to outweigh the positives, sorry.


> I've staged a rather unconvincing video of how some
> mock-complex curves show through a 3d shape and 'obstructs' me
> when all I really want to do is access the hidden edges of the selected
> solid. I hope you get the idea though **

If you have a whole bunch of stuff getting in your way you fundamentally have to hide some of it so that it won't be in your way... This new setting is not some cure-all to totally avoid that - having stuff littering your view is more of a demo of not doing enough object visibility management really.

When I first watched your video I thought that you were actually trying to draw some things on the front of the solid and getting snaps onto the hidden-line curves behind it by accident instead - that kind of problem is precisely why it's good to have a single control that can globally disable hidden lines...


Maybe in the future I could add another setting yet that would control whether curves will be part of the hidden-line display or not, I guess that would do what you are describing. But I also don't really like having too many zillions of options for people to have to wade through as well, when things get to a certain level people end up not being able to find anything in the mess.


- Michael

Hey Michael,

Here's the screenshot script I'm using :)

script: /* Custom screenshot */ var prev_background = moi.view.viewportBackgroundColor; moi.view.viewportBackgroundColor = 0xFFFFFF; moi.view.lineWidth = 1; moi.grid.display = false; moi.grid.showXYAxes = false; moi.view.showAxisIcon = false; moi.view.meshAngle = 4; moi.ui.getActiveViewport().renderToClipboard( 4200, 2970 ); moi.view.lineWidth = 1; moi.grid.display = true; moi.grid.showXYAxes = true; moi.view.showAxisIcon = true; moi.view.meshAngle = 8; moi.view.viewportBackgroundColor = prev_background;

Thanks a lot !

Hi Michael,

I've been following what Martin has been describing with Hidden Edges and I sort of agree with him, you have Hidden Edge options in two separate places where I think they should be together.
If I understood what Martin is getting at this is how I see it;


Hidden Edges not shown.




Display all hidden edges.




When 'Hidden edges on selected' is checked 'Display hidden lines' is automatically unchecked and vise-versa.



-

Thanks for taking the time to reply, Michael and Danny.

Michael.

What I wanted to highlight in the videos is that MoI has the ability to exclude curves from displaying through selected solids (by keeping the mouse button pressed, so the effect didn't just flash by) whilst at the same time being able to display the hidden edges/wireframe of that selected solid, and this is something I would have liked to have seen when ONLY 'Hidden edges on selected' is enabled.

<< Ok, but wouldn't that be weird to have a control that say "Display hidden lines" and you have it unchecked, yet still some hidden lines are being displayed somewhere? That's what could happen if it worked like you described.

** I agree that would be odd, but as 'Hidden edges on selected only' is the only one enabled, then it seems quite clear to me that is precisely what I should expect to see, so I'd find it pretty intuitive. **


Danny.

Thanks for summing up and improving the point I was trying to make ;)




Martin(2).

Hi DesuDeus,

> Here's the screenshot script I'm using :)

Here is how it would be modified to do double the current viewport pixel size:

script: /* Custom screenshot */ var prev_background = moi.view.viewportBackgroundColor; moi.view.viewportBackgroundColor = 0xFFFFFF; moi.view.lineWidth = 1; moi.grid.display = false; moi.grid.showXYAxes = false; moi.view.showAxisIcon = false; moi.view.meshAngle = 4; var vp = moi.ui.getActiveViewport(); vp.renderToClipboard( vp.pixelWidth * 2, vp.pixelHeight * 2 ); moi.view.lineWidth = 1; moi.grid.display = true; moi.grid.showXYAxes = true; moi.view.showAxisIcon = true; moi.view.meshAngle = 8; moi.view.viewportBackgroundColor = prev_background;

- Michael

Hi Danny,

> you have Hidden Edge options in two separate places
> where I think they should be together.

Well, the 2 checkboxes are together in options.

It's not particularly a goal to take every single thing in Options and put it into the side pane as well - it's better to only have things that are used more frequently in the side pane, and things that are more one time configuration options are intentionally only listed in the Options dialog and not in the side pane to prevent clutter and bloating of frequently accessed UI.

This new setting is something that I think is likely to be used as a configuration option, meaning something that you'll set one time as a preference for how hidden lines should function. Turning the hidden line display on or off is not like that, it's something that you may need to do many times just in the course of regular modeling. It's things like that which are good candidates for putting in the side pane.

- Michael

Ok, well I haven't managed to get the release notes set up for multitouch or nsided yet and I'm traveling for much of the day tomorrow so it may be a couple more days yet before those parts of the note are actually all finished.

- Michael

Perfect it works !

Thanks a lot :)

Where is the Mar 18 download? I've downloaded the Mar 17 a few days ago, but I don't know if there is a later one or not.

Michael T.

<< Where is the Mar 18 download?

I believe that here is the latest version ;)
http://moi3d.com/download.htm (last line)

Thanks Pilou!

Michael T.

Hi Michael T - oops that's a typo in the title of this thread, the Mar-17 one is the actual current one. I'll update the title.

- Michael

Thanks Michael G.

Hope you have a good weekend, and thanks again for a great tool!

Michael T.