When I import models into 3DSmax using FBX and OBJ it's seems clear to me that it is not retaining the normals info from the original file as it looks identical to the import in Blender. Is this correct? Does Max throw out the normals inf the same way Blender does? I have a work around, I export out as a SAT and open the SAT in Turbocad and then save it as a DWG but if there was an easier route that would be nice to know.

thanks

Val

Hi Val - I've heard of problems with Max's OBJ format before, but others have told me that FBX is working complete with normals as well. In fact the reason why I implemented FBX export in MoI was specifically to get a good transfer into Max including n-gons and normals.

What version of Max are you using? Some versions come with a somewhat buggy FBX import plug-in in the stock install, and you might need to update to the latest FBX import plugin which I think is available here: http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/item?id=10775855&siteID=123112

- Michael

See this post

http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=4627.8

I've had some luck with SAT.

Michael,

I'm using 2008 and have the latest fbx plug-in for it. So it could just be that I need to upgrade MAX at some point. I haven't bothered as nothing Autodesk has done warrants the cost of an upgrade for what I do.


Shuan,

Yes I have seen the post, I commented on it, exporting a SAT is my work around.

Ah well, I will keep doing what I am doing and stop fooling around.

thanks

Val

Hi Val, I guess maybe the latest FBX for 2008 (which is pretty old, they don't continue to release totally new plug-ins for old versions) still has some various bugs in it.

Various people have reported here in the forum that normals were coming in fine into Max using FBX with other versions, here are few mentions:
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=4567.3
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=2269.5
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=1958.3

It looks like version 2009 with the 2009.3 plugin has worked for other people.

- Michael

yah, seems like that is the case. still it doesn't warrant buying a new version of Max as I have a work around.

v

With some adjustments in how I output from Moi I can get a nice import but I think it still is changing the normals when it's imported. The reason I think this is I used the LWO import that was made for blender to import from Moi as a measure (it does a really nice job importing but you still can't really use it because if you TAB in to edit the file it automatically converts it over to the blender Normals) and I can have very low settings with it. with the FBX import in MAX it has to be pretty dense comparatively. My test mesh for the LWO file is 32,663 Vert and my FBX import file is 138,590 verts. Anyway it's interesting.

Why don't you just export as 3DS, max still handles 3DS well right ?

Just asking

Martin

Hi Val, yeah that definitely sounds like normals not coming through - when normals do come through even pretty rough meshes get shaded nicely with the shading actually matching the shape of the original NURBS surface, since the vertex normals are actually the normals from the original generating NURBS surface.

If you see some of the polygon structure revealed in the shading then yup that's usually a sign that the normals are not coming through.

Getting the proper vertex normals over does usually make a very significant difference in shading quality.

When the normals do not come over in the import they will instead be created by the renderer by just averaging the face normals of all the faces that surround each vertex. That can work ok if all the faces are of relatively uniform size and distribution, but often times that kind of polygon distribution goes with sub-d meshes and not CAD generated meshes which tend to have things like big flat areas next to curved filleted areas.

If you use "Divide larger than" to dice up your output polygons to try to get them into that kind of even distribution and same size that can help to make "cooked up by face averaging" normals to look better, but even then it's still just so much better to have the proper normals.

- Michael

Hi Martin,

> Why don't you just export as 3DS, max still handles 3DS well right ?

3DS is a very old format, it actually comes from the original ancient MS-DOS version of 3D Studio, and not 3DS "Max" .

It's got a lot of various limitations in it, one of which is that it does not have any method in it to store vertex normals, so it would not help with this particular problem.


@Val - one other thing you could try is the GuruWare objIO plug-in for Max here:
http://www.guruware.at/main/objio/index.html

That's an alternate OBJ importer that I think can work with Max 2008 - I seem to remember it could handle OBJ imports somewhat better than the built in Max OBJ importer.

It might be able to get vertex normals in for you, I think it may not handle n-gons as well as the FBX importer, so at export time from MoI set "Output: Quads & Triangles" rather than "Output: N-gons".

I had kind of forgotton about that other OBJ plug-in because for the most part FBX is the way to go for going into Max, except with your particular version it seems.

- Michael

Martin,

Because it has the same problem as OBJ imports. It messes with the normals. so you end up with not the best looking mesh. So far the FBX works and a DWG import works. both end up being pretty dense but I can live with that most of the time. The GW::obj importer seems to work better than the wavefront importer. I'd have to go back and see if that is true but that is what I remember.

Thanks Val & Michael, that's surprising with MAX and it no longer supporting the 3DS format properly any more, The last MAX i played with was version 5, and if i remember rightly 3DS imported better than most other formats, and all you had to do was click on the ok button to save it as .MAX file and it converted pretty well. I wonder how many old files of mine would actually import properly now then.

Martin

Michael,

Both the OBJ import and FBX are hit and miss with Ngons so it's always a test it out kind of thing. If I can get away with it I prefer the N-gons as they are tidier.

V

Hi Martin, Max actuallly supports the 3DS format ok - the problem is more in the 3DS format itself.

The 3DS format is very old and the format has various limitations in - one of the limitations is that it does not have any method in the file format to hold vertex normals.

Since it's a problem with the file format itself there isn't anything that can really be done by an importer to fix that, the fix is to use a different file format does have the ability within the format structure to hold vertex normals in the file.

- Michael

Hi Val - from what others have written before, it seems that newer FBX versions also handle n-gons better than before too...

- Michael

Michael,

Yes, I sure that's right.
An interesting side note. Next limits Maxwell studio imports OBJ files directly out of Moi no problem, all the normal work correctly. it's a breeze. It's a nice combination, very detailed and correct objects built with ease rendered with a correct engine that is easy to use.

Val