Components?
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 From:  Michael Gibson
5313.13 In reply to 5313.12 
Hi Martin,

> Instances to me are just a memory/speed saving measure which is of course
> highly desired within a 32bit environment.

They're definitely used for that a lot, but other people also use them for pretty separate things from that - either to be able to do modifications and have all shared instances get updated, and also to have the components list be a "bill of materials" that just keeps track of how many of each part are in there.

So most likely the components UI will have some stuff oriented around these other uses of instancing as well.


> I don't like throwing spanners into the mixing bowl, but since MOI has no ray trace
> rendering engine, and most models are therefore exported to the likes of MAX, C4D,
> Blender et al then you could in reality leave instancing to those applications as most
> already do it. It would be harsh but understandable, and I would really like to see
> instances in MOI.

Even when MoI does have instances (I definitely expect to have them at some point), you still may want to do the instancing in your rendering programs instead in many cases since many of the somewhat older mesh file formats do not have any instancing mechanism in the file format structure itself. For example OBJ format does not have any kind of instancing in it. Instances will have to get converted into regular copies when doing a transfer through one of those kinds of file formats.

- Michael
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 From:  Rich (-RB-)
5313.14 In reply to 5313.13 
> Even when MoI does have instances (I definitely expect to have them at some point)

This is the news I was looking for - can't wait.

My 2c:

- I feel that as a reference you should use SU, it is pretty solid...In terms of being able to group an object(s) so it is in a nice little packet and then have the option to create a component instance out of it. I don't feel that a hierarchy output/list is needed (keeping the 'artist' in mind - would an artist have the need for such a complicated Maya-ish display?)

- The strength of components for me lies in the ability to change geometry and have it update easily across a project, fast. It is a time saver, and when dealing with symmetrical objects the ability to alter one side and have the other automatically update is fantastic. Just ignoring the bringing the model size down for a second - this doesn't strike me as being a huge issue within MoI.

- As there are many different ways to approach this across many different softwares - does it need to be a feature that remains valid upon export? Maybe a focus on intuitive UI would be where the time is best spent? This is probably selfish as I import to Rhino and have no idea how this would work anyway.

- Rich
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 From:  Marc (TELLIER)
5313.15 
Being able to select a whole group in the viewport would be nice.
You click on the group and it selects all the objects.


Xara has some practical examples of object organization, several kind are possible:

Groups: Cluster of objects like described above, possibility of nested groups.

Soft Groups: Stacking Objects can be spanned across several layers and reorganized afterward, does not change stacking order.

Named objects: Object or group of objects can be named and they can belong to several different names tags, making cross-association possible. An example here:
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=2127.47

Live copies: Instancing.

There's also Clipview but that wouldn't apply much to 3d.


Ctrl+Clicking on a group will select an object inside a group, Ctrl+alt+Clicking will select nested groups inside, repeating will cycle through them...


Marc
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 From:  al (ALASTAIR)
5313.16 In reply to 5313.14 
Vectorworks uses a system of Groups, Symbols, Classes and Layers, which is very powerful.

Groups act as 'boxes', organising the drawing into discrete sections. A duplicate group is independent from the original. Groups aren't named, they're simply a drawing tool that allows disparate objects to be linked for convenience.

Symbols are clones - similar to a SU component. Change any symbol and it updates across the file. Useful for repetitive elements (obviously), such as standard size doors, they're named and organised in a library (which can be referenced from an external file). Symbols can be automatically inserted into walls in the manner of SU, but this is complex and not that important in practice - it's the ease of updating that's particularly useful.

Classes are the equivalent of Moi names. Classes can set global properties - colours, lineweights, opacity, visibility and so on. Classes operate drawing-wide, affecting members of groups and elements. Useful for grouping materials.

Layers are the equivalent of separate drawing sheets overlaid (storeys of a building for example). They can probably be discounted here.

The system works well, and would certainly help me in my use of Moi - I find it too easy to change something by accident..
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
5313.17 
In your futur system of Instance
like in SKetchup if you modify any copy of a component all same components will be modified ?
And a possibility to make an instance of component "Unic" ?

---
Pilou
Is beautiful that please without concept!
My Gallery
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 From:  Michael Gibson
5313.18 In reply to 5313.17 
Hi Pilou,

> like in SKetchup if you modify any copy of a component all same components will be modified ?

Yup, that would definitely be part of it.



> And a possibility to make an instance of component "Unic" ?

Sorry I'm not sure what this part means.

- Michael
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 From:  bemfarmer
5313.19 
Unique?
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 From:  Mike K4ICY (MAJIKMIKE)
5313.20 In reply to 5313.19 
So "different" - not "genderless". ;-0
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
5313.21 
Yes! Unique :)
---
Pilou
Is beautiful that please without concept!
My Gallery
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 From:  Michael Gibson
5313.22 In reply to 5313.21 
Hi Pilou, unique in what way in particular?

In general instancing mechanisms are focused on making large amounts of duplicated objects, and duplication is pretty much the opposite from unique.

- Michael
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
5313.23 In reply to 5313.22 
It's just for isolate a component from a familly of instanciation
---
Pilou
Is beautiful that please without concept!
My Gallery
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 From:  Michael Gibson
5313.24 In reply to 5313.23 
Hi Pilou - yes there would also be some mechanism in place for changing an instance into a regular non-instanced full copy of the object so that you could then use it as a regular object after that.

- Michael
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 From:  Rich (-RB-)
5313.25 
This will be killer!
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 From:  Dee3 (DMATHO)
5313.26 In reply to 5313.24 
Actually, at least in SketchUp, given a component (call it "Comp1.00") - or any of its instances (Comp1.01, Comp1.02, etc.) - when selecting any one of these and making it "Unique" one turns it into a new component (call it "Comp1.02_Copy1.00"). This is like a branching out from the originals a new non-twin sibling whilst still allowing new instances from that new copy. In other words, both the original and the unique copy remain "instance-able".

Cheers,

. Diego .
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 From:  DesertRaven
5313.27 
I want to vote this one up on to the priority list :-)
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 From:  DesertRaven
5313.28 In reply to 5313.1 
I want to vote this feature up!
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 From:  DesertRaven
5313.29 In reply to 5313.4 
A hierarchy can be established through components in conjunction with a components management tool.
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