Probably simple trim issue ...  1-20  21-27

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 From:  none (EVALON)
5269.1 
Hi MoI'ers,

I'm in the process of evaluating Moi3D and have come as far as modeling the attached model (jpg & program file). To me the program is quite intuitive but I'm not quite sure how the trim & boolean commands work in practice.

E.g. on the model attached: When I try to use the trim command it removes ALL of the inner circular rod - and I can't find a way to remove just the portion that is outside of the ellipse (shown with black pencil) .. ?? I do things in the sequence listed in the command reference but I reckon there must be a way to do this...

Any insights appreciated ;-)

Best regards,

Jesper



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 From:  TpwUK
5269.2 
Your inner "rod" was not placed very well - it protrudes through the base of the main circular part, nudging the rod up and boolean difference gives this result, is it what you want ?

Martin

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 From:  Michael Gibson
5269.3 In reply to 5269.1 
Hi Jesper, just to help clarify what Martin is explaining, here is a screenshot from the bottom of your objects:





So the because the rod is hanging off the bottom slightly it means the ring does not fully divide it into pieces, that's why you are running into some trouble there.

Like Martin wrote you probably want to move the rod upwards a little. And then instead of using Trim which is more of a surface modeling operation (which will slice only the surface area of objects) when you have solids it can be more convenient to cut things using booleans instead, since Booleans with solids will keep the results as solids as well.

So in this case using booleans you would first select the rod and then do a boolean difference using the ring as the cutting object with the "Keep objects" checkbox enabled so that the ring still stays around, that will then cut up the rod into solid chunks and you can discard the outer solids and then you can do a boolean union between the interior rod piece and the ring.

You could use Trim as well, but Trim is a somewhat more low level operation that only slices up surface area, once you use it on a solid the result won't be a solid anymore it will be open surfaces, the booleans are kind of like a "higher level" cutting operation that also cuts things but then automatically decides which pieces to discard based on which volume they are in, and then also automatically joins the pieces together, so it's not unusual for the booleans to be a bit more convenient than using Trim since with Trim you can then need to do some more steps later on. Not always though, it's just a general rule of thumb that with solids prefer the booleans unless you know that you are going to be working at the surface level for a while and then forming up solids later.

- Michael

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 From:  none (EVALON)
5269.4 In reply to 5269.3 
Hi Michael & Martin,

& thank you both for replying & illustrating ;-)

@Martin: Yes, it's something like what you are drawing that I'm looking for, although I need the lower surface of the "rod" to be exactly level with the lower surface of the ellipse. I'll experiment with that ...

@Michael: Thanks for clarifying some (I guess?) of the differences between trim & boolean. As you may have guessed I'm quite new to 3D modeling so I appreciate getting help in clarifying such concepts. BTW - I really like the name of this software - Moment of Inspiration - it gives me an image of my getting an idea or inspiration and then immediately being able to sketch it up ;-)

Now back to drawing ;-)

Greetings to you both,

Jesper
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
5269.5 In reply to 5269.4 
<< Moment of Inspiration - it gives me an image of my getting an idea or inspiration and then immediately being able to sketch it up :)

That is exactly that! ;)
---
Pilou
Is beautiful that please without concept!
My Gallery
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 From:  none (EVALON)
5269.6 In reply to 5269.5 
... So now I got it (first step in the design) with your help (Michael & Martin & tutorial by Joe on Doric Columns) ... :-) (see attachment if you are interested) ....

BTW is there a way to calculating the volume of this solid?

On to drawing again ...

Greetings,

Jesper



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 From:  Michael Gibson
5269.7 In reply to 5269.6 
Hi Jesper, it's looking great! Currently there is nothing set up in MoI to do volume calculations, but that is something I want to add for v3.

At the moment though you would have to export your model to some other CAD program and do the volume calculation over there. One pretty inexpensive CAD program that can work well to help out with various things is ViaCAD: http://www.punchcad.com/p-9-viacad-2d3d-v8.aspx

- Michael
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 From:  DannyT (DANTAS)
5269.8 In reply to 5269.6 
Great start Jesper!

The volume of this part is 8368.18cm³ (510.66in³) also I noticed that your part isn't a 'Solid' so I had to trim it in half, mirror then join to become a solid volume, one side was good :)

-
~Danny~
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 From:  none (EVALON)
5269.9 In reply to 5269.8 
Hey Michael & Danny,

Thank you for your kind words about my close to first creation ... And not least also for helping with my questions ;-)

@Danny: A bit surprising that it has this volume :-( It's supposed to be about 111 millimeters high, about 73 mms wide and 3 mms thick at the thickest point. That shouldn't give 8368 cm3 - I hope as it's likely to be cast in silver .... ;-) Hmmm... I just noticed that the scale wasn't set to millimeters so guess that does it ...? My guess is that the volume is 8.363 cm3 meaning that the weight will be about 85 grams. Could that be right?

It's interesting also that you found that one half of the model was not a solid. When modeling it I first "unioned" the upper part of the model and the rods and frame appeared to join completely, whereas when I did exactly the same to the bottom half then some ellipses remained on the outside of the frame. I reckon this is why one half (bottom?) was not a solid. How do you see this, by the way?

@Michael: Thanks for the link to ViaCad. I don't know if this is the place to ask for this - but since I'm currently evaluating some CAD softwares (& somewhat "steaming" beyond what the summer brings about from so doing) do you then have some comments about the difference between ViaCad & MoI3D? Maybe a thread somewhere?

Thanks for reading & maybe replying ;-)

Jesper
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 From:  none (EVALON)
5269.10 In reply to 5269.9 
Hi again ...

@Danny: about the frame & rods being a solid I clicked the "types" & solids and - after mirroring it like I suppose you did - it now becomes selected when I click the solid option. Might that in general be an indication of whether or not an item is a solid?

Best regards,

Jesper
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 From:  Ditto
5269.11 In reply to 5269.9 
>> about the difference between ViaCad & MoI3D

Apples and oranges. One is a CAD program (with all the implications and complications), the other is a modelling program.

Make your choice what you want to do, then pick your weapon. Some use Rhino or MoI for modelling and sketching out ideas. And then Solidworks or Autocad or whatever when it comes to actually making things. Not that that can't be done in MoI, but it quickly becomes a pain in the neck because there aren't (real) solutions for standard parts libraries, assemblies, collaborative engineering, parametric design, constraints and dependencies. The list goes on ...
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 From:  Michael Gibson
5269.12 In reply to 5269.9 
Hi Jesper,

> @Michael: Thanks for the link to ViaCad. I don't know if this is the place to ask for this - but since
> I'm currently evaluating some CAD softwares (& somewhat "steaming" beyond what the summer
> brings about from so doing) do you then have some comments about the difference between
> ViaCad & MoI3D? Maybe a thread somewhere?

I don't think there's any previous thread specifically for that, but some of the main differences are just the general user interface approach. Really the best way to see the differences is to try both versions yourself, some things like workflow and user interface can mean different things to different people.

Also it's not unusual for some particular program to be better than another in some particular area, and so it can be helpful to have more than one program in your toolbox.

For MoI the main focus in on ease of use and a kind of fluid workflow and so it's particularly handy for building and drawing things quickly.

- Michael
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 From:  BurrMan
5269.13 In reply to 5269.12 
"""""""""Apples and oranges. One is a CAD program (with all the implications and complications), the other is a modelling program."""""""""""

Errrr. NOT.
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 From:  Ditto
5269.14 In reply to 5269.13 
>>"""""""""Apples and oranges. One is a CAD program (with all the implications and complications), the other is a modelling program."""""""""""

> Errrr. NOT.

You can elaborate ?
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 From:  BurrMan
5269.15 In reply to 5269.14 
You called an apple an orange, or was it an orange an apple?

MoI is a CAD package.

Solidworks is a CAD package.

ViaCad is a CAD package.

CAD= Computer aided design. We model in all of these.

It appears you were refering to a toolset that any one CAD package contains as a difference?
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 From:  Ditto
5269.16 In reply to 5269.15 
> you were refering to a toolset ..

Yes, you could drive a nail into a wall using a screw-driver. Would you call the screw-driver a hammer ?
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 From:  BurrMan
5269.17 In reply to 5269.16 
""""""""""
Yes, you could drive a nail into a wall using a screw-driver. Would you call the screw-driver a hammer ?""""""""""

No, I would call it a tool. Then I would point out that you are using the wrong tool for the job.

But that is a ridiculous analogy to try to make the point of the misleading statement you made.
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 From:  Michael Gibson
5269.18 
Ok guys, let's please not hijack Jesper's thread with an argument.

Thanks,
- Michael
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 From:  DannyT (DANTAS)
5269.19 In reply to 5269.9 
Hi Jesper,

> My guess is that the volume is 8.363 cm3
> meaning that the weight will be about 85 grams.
> Could that be right?

Yep that's correct with the sizes you mentioned, because you didn't set the units, which I should of noticed also, the part exported out ten times bigger.

> I reckon this is why one half (bottom?) was not a solid.
> How do you see this, by the way?

When I first open a model from someone else the first thing I do is select it and in the information panel as shown below MoI tells me what the model is, in your case it was a joined surface.



Then to find out where surfaces/faces are not joined I use the script SelectNakedEdges http://kyticka.webzdarma.cz/3d/moi/#SelectNaked that's where I found that something wasn't right with the bottom half of your model, fixed it as mentioned above then exported it.

-
~Danny~
Attachments:

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 From:  stevecim
5269.20 In reply to 5269.9 
Hi Jesper

have a look here


http://www.rapidprototype.com.au/
http://quotes.rapidprototype.com.au/

they have a online quote system, upload your STL, they will work out the volume and you can even work out rough prices in variuos metals, i.e silver, gold.... 111x73x3 should be well under 85 grams :)

this is the sort of result they give you.... has you can see my pendant with was 37.18 x 31.50 x 3.59 mm volume of just under 1cm3





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