new beta soon?
 1-17  18-37  38-57  58-77  78-97  98-117  118-119

Previous
Next
 From:  Mike K4ICY (MAJIKMIKE)
5252.58 In reply to 5252.54 
Here is what I got from just using MoI's counter: (the speeds are guessed averages)

Theads: Speed ms:

1 163 (4 cores active)
2 145 (6 cores active) What?
3 153 (7 cores active)
4 160 (8 cores active)
5 160 (8 cores active)
6 160 (8 cores active)
7 160 (8 cores active)
8 160 (8 cores active)

So Michael, it seems that the 2 thread setting is the way to go for now.
Now, I might try to figure out how to get Fraps to run a controlled timed test, but I hope this data is slightly useful.
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Michael Gibson
5252.59 In reply to 5252.52 
Hi Will,

> I can absolutely see, and believe you on how painful this conversion will be to do, but
> obviously you'll have to do it sooner or later so I'd advocate why not sooner?

Well one factor is just basically fatigue - the comparison to the Mac version that you make is a good one, and the Mac version took a huge concentrated 6 month effort for me to produce. During that time other new feature development was totally suspended which is bad.

I don't think that I have enough energy to go through another similar slog right after finishing one up. And since it would involve no new modeling features, the end result would actually be of no benefit to a really large amount of users anyway...

So weighing in on the negative side there is a huge amount of work and sacrificing a bunch of feature work in order to do it, and on the positive side there is a benefit to only a smaller group of people... The cost/benefit analysis here tells me to hold off for now.

Then on top of that now that I have a Mac version I don't think that it would fly very well to make a 64-bit version for only one platform and not the other, and right now the mechanism that MoI uses for the Mac version does not support 64-bit Windows programs yet. So figuring out what to do about that only adds to the amount of work involved...

So it's definitely not looking like it will happen anytime soon, it is extremely unlikely that a 64-bit version will pop out as a kind of surprise like the Mac version sort of did.

Maybe it's possible sometime in the v5 timeframe. I am absolutely 100% certain that it won't happen for v3, the Mac version took up all the energy for such a large single-feature type effort for now. And I wouldn't mind doing an entire release without anything like that at all, so it might not happen for v4 either.

Some previous discussion here as well:
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=5172.5

It may be that the best way forward that would include the Mac as well would involve a major architecture change with a kind of internal 64-bit cross-compiled database engine that still had a 32-bit layer for UI. But I'm not entirely sure about that, it will require a lot of planning and design work to accomplish that.


> I can absolutely see, and believe you on how painful this conversion will be to do, but obviously
> you'll have to do it sooner or later so I'd advocate why not sooner?

Well, it's actually not obvious - certainly one valid strategy is to never do a 64-version at all, ever... I don't think that's probably what will happen, it will probably be more like sometime in the future when more of the modeling modeling features that take priority have been done. But in any case it is not coming up anytime very soon anyway.

If 64-bit-ness is a requirement for what you need to do, then it means that MoI is just not the right tool for the job currently, I have never shied away from telling people that MoI is not the right software for them when they are trying to do something outside of what it is good at.


- Michael
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Michael Gibson
5252.60 In reply to 5252.58 
Hi Mike, re: limiting threads - I guess it might be possible that the nVidia driver is trying to use some type of threading itself and that may be competing for cpu resources as well.

Can you look in your nVidia driver settings and see if there is a checkbox there named anything like "Threaded optimization" and what happens if you turn that off?

I think that probably MoI is able to use the cores more efficiently for its particular workload than what the driver was trying to do on the driver side alone.

- Michael
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Michael Gibson
5252.61 In reply to 5252.43 
Hi adamio, great to see the new PDF import overhaul is working better for you now!

This also affects .AI format import as well, since new style (since Illustrator v9) .AI files are actually PDF files.

So anyway it should not be necessary anymore to save .AI files for transport to MoI using the older AI v8 format instead like previously.

- Michael
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  BurrMan
5252.62 In reply to 5252.60 
Here's a slightly different test. Dual quad core xeon.

2500 sphere grid. Filesize 11.8 mb

ms = no difference between v2, last beta and this beta.

Nvidia quadro card. Just tried to turn off thread optimization witgh no change in result.
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Michael Gibson
5252.63 In reply to 5252.44 
Hi Mauro,

> MOI V3 20 JULY=1023 ms
>
> MOI V3 16 APRIL=1150 ms
>
>
>
> Intel core quad 9450-8 Gb RAM


Do you also have an nVidia card like Mike?

It looks like the old beta was using multiple cores on your machine already, but that's not from MoI so it must be something the driver is doing. But it's probably sapping resources away which MoI would able to use more effectively.

Can you look in your nVidia driver settings to see if there is any option like "Threaded optimization" which can be turned off? Do you see any change in MoI after that?

- Michael
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Michael Gibson
5252.64 In reply to 5252.62 
Hi Burr,

> Nvidia quadro card. Just tried to turn off thread optimization witgh no change in result.

Hmmm, well that's disappointing!

Can you test what happens if you set DisplayThreadLimit=1 in MoI.ini (in the [View] section), does it then only show one actual core active when rotating the view or is the driver still using some itself then?

You also might try setting DisplayThreadLimit=6 or so and see if that produces some better results. It's possible with too many threads to actually have things degrade somewhat in areas where they need to be coordinated.

- Michael
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Marc (TELLIER)
5252.65 
Hi Michael,

Thanks for the new Beta!
I like the icons you used for deform tools

The enlarged pdf support will surely be handy.

Marc
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Mike K4ICY (MAJIKMIKE)
5252.66 
Hmmm... no luck here either. :-/

I've tried it both with the "Global" setting as well as with one keyed for moi.exe.

I again tried different combos of thread levels.

It seems that "2" is still the fastest.
I also see four cores working, but that's because 2 cores are hyper-threaded to four.




And Triple Buffering seems to have no effect either way.
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  BurrMan
5252.67 In reply to 5252.64 
Setting a thread limit actually does limit the cpu's being used, but no real change... It appears maybe I see a 50ms change when going to something other than no limit, but I'm not sure.

I'll fool around a bit more with some of the other driver settings later. Any suggestions on those other than the thread optimization off?
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Michael Gibson
5252.68 In reply to 5252.66 
Hi Mike,

> I also see four cores working, but that's because 2 cores are hyper-threaded to four.

Hmm but when you set the limit in MoI to 2 that should mean only 2 threads (so 2 entries in the task manager) are crunching away with possibly some amount on a third thread where it is talking to the driver on the main thread.

If you still see 4 cores going, that sounds like the driver is still using multiple threads itself despite that particular "Threaded optimization" setting being turned off. I was going to say try the global setting instead of the per-app one but I just saw that you tried that already.

Is it possible that there is a separate Direct3D and OpenGL sections for driver settings? You would want to be in the Direct3D one if so.

Otherwise, some generic advice might be to upgrade to the latest video driver if you are on an older version, maybe there was a problem at some point with it not paying attention to the threaded optimization setting...

- Michael
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Michael Gibson
5252.69 In reply to 5252.67 
Hi Burr,

> I'll fool around a bit more with some of the other driver settings later. Any suggestions on
> those other than the thread optimization off?

Nope, I'd leave everything else other than "threaded optimization" to be at the defaults. Also make sure not to force anti-aliasing on with the driver settings or else it can mess up how selection works in MoI.

But also now that I see what your test file is like, a "sphere grid" is actually a particular kind of case since each sphere only has a single edge in it. So your test file happens to be heavy on surface drawing and light on edge drawing, and it's actually edge drawing that consumes the most CPU and also therefore has the most to benefit from the multi-core use as well.

On a more real model you would tend to have more than just one edge for each surface, especially with areas that have been cut and booleaned.

- Michael
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Mike K4ICY (MAJIKMIKE)
5252.70 In reply to 5252.68 
Thanks,

I shall try to get in contact with my brother and see what he's got set up in this thing...
But I'll do some snooping myself to see what I can break. ;-)

Since the weekend is upon me, maybe I can concentrate on souping up the system that really needs it (at home.)
It's only got two cores. Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised. :-)

Fun, fun!
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Michael Gibson
5252.71 In reply to 5252.56 
Hi Ditto - re: flickering on spheres, I haven't seen anything like that over here so far.

Can you please post a 3DM model file for a simple case where it is happening for you just so I can make sure I can have the same test case over here for looking at?

Also do you have any custom settings set under Options > View > Meshing parameters - are your settings there the default Mesh angle = 10 degrees and "Add detail to inflections" enabled?

- Michael
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  danperk (SBEECH)
5252.72 
Nice Job Michael! The new Isocurves will be very useful!

I tested the benchmarks & saw a substantial speed-up.

I'm running with mesh angle @ 6 deg. & used AutoRotate2 to get an average speed:

April Beta = 53 ms.
July Beta = 17 ms.

Attachments:

  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  beanworks
5252.73 
got a dumb question. Where might I find my license key?
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Mauro (M-DYNAMICS)
5252.74 In reply to 5252.63 
>Michael

Can you look in your nVidia driver settings to see if there is any option like "Threaded optimization" which can be turned off? Do you see any change in MoI after that?




In the Nvidia control panel,on advanced 3D settings i tried ON-OFF-AUTO,global settings and also -MOI V3 July-dedicated settings




GPU-Z screenshot about my card



during thread optimization turned -OFF- i ran windows task manager and i saw all four threads working(maybe they didn't run?..forgive me if i have misunderstood what you mean)

see below attached screenshots with all options:no great changes

good night Michael (here is midnight) see you tomorrow

EDITED: 25 Mar 2021 by M-DYNAMICS


  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Michael Gibson
5252.75 In reply to 5252.73 
Hi beanworks,

> got a dumb question. Where might I find my license key?

Well, it's sent to you by e-mail originally. Right now it is not displayed in the actual program UI anywhere but it is written as a text file which you can open up in a text editor (like notepad on Windows or TextEdit.app on Mac) to see.

The text file is in the same location as moi.ini, and will be named moi_v2_license.key - you can find out where your moi.ini file is at by going to Options > General , and push the "Edit .ini file" button. In the dialog that pops up, it will tell you where the ini file is located at and your moi_v2_license.key file should be in that same directory.

- Michael
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Michael Gibson
5252.76 In reply to 5252.72 
Hi danperk, that is a great speedup, and cool twisty model too!

What video card are you using on that machine?

- Michael
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  danperk (SBEECH)
5252.77 In reply to 5252.76 
Thanks! I'm running an ATI 5870 - 1GB & Intel 930 Quad.
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged
 

Reply to All Reply to All

 

 
Show messages:  1-17  18-37  38-57  58-77  78-97  98-117  118-119