A Strange problem

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 From:  Designu (MOI2)
5120.1 
Hi there!
First of all Thank you so much Michael for creating this awesome application. This has been so fun to use when compared to other competitors out there. For the very first time it is such a joy to use a CAD software. Michael is The man!

Ok to my main point and this is strange to say at least. I have constructed a cylinder consisting of 7 vertical tubes. One the main in the middle and surrounded by 8 different smaller ones. Please see that picture below.

For some reason when I imported it to an other CAD it has been doubled it´s size but vertical size.
Strange? Hold on because this one is a little bit more bizarre. I also experienced that I minimized this file to half of it´s size in MOI and exported it to this specific other CAD for measurements it is still ok by it´s vertical size and those all minor circles are ok but outer radius of whole piece is still this miniature sized.

I have not been able to spot anything wrong with either import options of this other CAD and neither MOI´s export options. It is also a big mystery why on earth this situation is same whit STEP or Open NURBS export.

Oh, this is the same result when they opened it with ProE in 3D-printer service. So it must have something to do with MOI´s export side.

The 3D printer provider prefer STEP so that´s what I would like to provide that.

Any ideas anyone? Is it some odd MOI behavior I should be aware of when exporting?

Cheers!
Mike

EDITED: 4 May 2012 by MOI2

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 From:  BurrMan
5120.2 In reply to 5120.1 
Hi Mike,
There should be no "Strange behaviour" comming from an export out of MoI... Sounds like a unit change somewhere in the process. Can you post this simple example file so we can look. I have a few cad packages i could check your file with.. Most likely there is someone here with your exact package that you are working with too. Whats the other CAD package that you are going to? Be sure you know the units it is working in.
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 From:  Michael Gibson
5120.3 In reply to 5120.1 
Hi Mike, that does sound like a strange problem, I have not heard of anything similar to that happening to anyone else so far.

I'm not quite sure if I understand exactly what you are describing, there seems to be a word missing from your sentence here:

"For some reason when I imported it to an other CAD it has been doubled it´s size but vertical size."

Do you mean doubled in size but _not_ in vertical size, or _only_ in vertical size or something like that?


Also you wrote:
"and exported it to this specific other CAD for measurements it is still ok by it´s vertical size and those all minor circles are ok but outer radius of whole piece is still this miniature sized. "

I'm sorry but I don't understand what "still this minature sized" means here - what is miniature about it? I kind of need a bit more clear explanation of this...

Like Burr mentions, if you can please post the 3DM model file that would be a big help since we could then take a look at your actual object and units settings and stuff like that.


Are you sure you're not just seeing some difference in units? Like for example if you export out from MoI with units = inches and then import that into some other program into an existing project with units set to something else then it would be normal that your model would be scaled in that other unit system. For example 1 inch is equal to 2.54 centimeters, so if you export a model that is 1 unit high in inches in MoI and then bring it into a different program where it has units set to centimeters, then that would be normal and expected for your object to become 2.54 units high over there if it was using centimeters as the unit system instead of inches as the unit system.

It's really hard to understand what you are describing though with a few of the key words in some of those sentences seeming to be missing? It would be a big help if you could post the model file. I looked at your screenshot and nothing jumps out from that as being unusual, but I can do a lot more in depth analysis of an actual model file than of a screenshot.

- Michael
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 From:  Michael Gibson
5120.4 In reply to 5120.1 
Hi Mike, maybe you have not set any unit system at all in MoI?

Several file formats like STEP I think does not really have the equivalent of a "no unit system" setting, it wants to have an actual unit system set and I think if you do not have any units set in MoI then it will default to inches in the STEP file.

So if you had been modeling with intending to use units as cm or something like that, but you did not ever actually set the unit system in MoI to actually have that value and left it just at "No unit system", then that might be your problem with you generating a STEP file with its units actually in inches.

If that's the problem then the fix is to just go to the Options dialog in MoI and set the unit system to the unit system that you are intending to use instead of leaving it at the generic "No unit system".

If you just leave it at "No unit system" then MoI will not understand what units your objects are supposed to be at - it's fine to leave it at "No unit system" if you're just modeling stuff only in MoI but when you are exchanging data with other CAD systems you should set the unit system so that you know what units will actually be set in the generated file.

- Michael
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 From:  Designu (MOI2)
5120.5 In reply to 5120.1 
I did some further examinations and happened to figure out that it works well with object constructed in MOI but extruded. So as I exported it as .STEP all dimensions are correct but as soon as I have extruded that 2D draft constructed in MOI inside MOI and exported it things will went wrong and for some reason whole object will be doubled by its size when imported.

I draw every part by using draw tools and then trim, extrude I did not use any primitive solid forms like sphere, cylinder etc. I guess this has nothing to do with exporting dilemma but in case it will help I thought it´ll be wise to mention.

Regards:
Mike
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 From:  Designu (MOI2)
5120.6 In reply to 5120.5 
Hi Michael and Burrman,

thank you both for your quick respond!

I have set Unit system in MOI as millimeters that should not be the case. Both default and document units have been right from the beginning (as centimeters) since start using MOI.
I am using Spaceclaim trial and there also set as metric so that should not be any issue either. I just made a double check for that just in case.
I really can not understand what the heck is wrong and this is the first time for me also.

But as they opened that file in 3D printing service provider the same double sized part opened.

Unfortunately I am not allowed to send that original file here due to client´s confidential aspect but I can PM it to Michael himself.

I am using MOI v 2.5 beta on Mac in case it helps. Have not yet tried on v3.

Mike

P.S. Yes I was a bit unclear with my explanation so let´s just forget that part shall we. Wont be any big deal :)
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 From:  bemfarmer
5120.7 
http://forum.alibre.com/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=14810
Over on the Alibre forum, there is a post about a problem with the
size of STL files.

Maybe a centimeter/inch conversion problem...

I would guess that it is NOT a Moi problem...
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 From:  bemfarmer
5120.8 
Just for fun:

EDITED: 9 Aug 2013 by BEMFARMER

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 From:  Michael Gibson
5120.9 In reply to 5120.6 
Hi Mike, thanks for sending the file.

The file looks totally fine, it does have mm units set in it, and I was able to open your file with a variety of different CAD programs and they all load your part fine giving a 100mm tall object.

I test opening your STP file with MoI, Rhino, Alibre, and ViaCAD and all were fine.

Can you please give me a more detailed description of what you are doing to produce a bad result - are you able to actually reproduce any problem yourself or are you just relaying back information about what someone else is seeing?

I guess I would want to see what settings and options the person doing the import has set, maybe they have chosen some weird things in their import settings like to override units or something along those lines.

Maybe you will have to tell them that the file is in millimeters and that they should set their unit system in the program they are importing into to be mm first before they do the import.

- Michael
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 From:  Michael Gibson
5120.10 In reply to 5120.7 
Hi Brian,

> Over on the Alibre forum, there is a post about a problem
> with the size of STL files.

STL (note the L - different from STP files) do not have any way inside of them to mark what units the file are actually in so you have to be careful to tell the receiving person what units have been used.

That should not be an issue with STP files though, STP files do have a units marker in them.

- Michael
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 From:  Michael Gibson
5120.11 In reply to 5120.5 
Hi Mike, you wrote:

quote:
I did some further examinations and happened to figure out that it works well with object constructed in MOI but extruded. So as I exported it as .STEP all dimensions are correct but as soon as I have extruded that 2D draft constructed in MOI inside MOI and exported it things will went wrong and for some reason whole object will be doubled by its size when imported.


Could you try to break this down with a bit more detail about some of the steps?

Like for example you write: "and for some reason whole object will be doubled by its size when imported."

When imported into where exactly? What program are you importing it into where you see the size doubled?

Do you see it doubled if you just import it directly back into MoI ?

Again, over here I imported your STP file you sent in e-mail into a number of different programs and I did not see any doubling of size in any of them.

So that leads me to believe it may be something in the import settings in the particular program that you are using for doing the import - if you could give more specific details about that it might help.

Maybe that program has some kind of optional scale factor that can be applied to the import, if so then check it to see if it is set with a scale factor of anything other than a value of 1.0 .

- Michael
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 From:  Designu (MOI2)
5120.12 In reply to 5120.11 
Hi everyone.
This case is some what successfully closed. It was not any MOI behavior but Spaceclaim did it wrong for some reason when importing that object. It all went normal after re-installation.
Thank you for your help and advices.

I also want to thank you Michael for serving your excellent support via PM.
Designu
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 From:  Michael Gibson
5120.13 In reply to 5120.12 
Hi Mike, you're welcome and I'm glad that your problem is resolved now!

- Michael
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 From:  Tony (BLUEOCEAN)
5120.14 In reply to 5120.6 

SpaceClaim changing imported drawing size

I too had this problem EXCEPT my imports to SpaceClaim from STL were roughly 24x bigger. Just figured it out and wanted to share in case it might help someone else:

>File>SpaceClaim Options>File Options>General -- scroll to "Import Options" then check "Import hidden components and geometry" click "OK"

 

 

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