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 From:  FiL (FILIPPOL)
5041.1 
Hello everyone, I ask you a question please.
I do some design project (not my main job) and I would like to buy a new pc and I wanted to go 'iMac.
In order to use 3v MOI and then other usual programs rendering (which will buy in the future) this configuration is sufficient?
iMac 21,5"
Configuration:
Intel Core i5 quad-core 2,7GHz (or Intel Core i7 quad-core 2,8GHz)
4GB SDRAM DDR3 a 1333MHz - 2 x 2GB
Disck Serial ATA da 1TB
AMD Radeon HD 6770M GDDR5 with 512MB

Or should I switch to this?
iMac 27"
Configuration
Intel Core i5 quad-core a 3,1GHz (or Intel Core i7 quad-core 3,4GHz)
4GB SDRAM DDR3 a 1333MHz - 2 x 2GB
Disck Serial ATA da 1TB
AMD Radeon HD 6970M GDDR5 with 1GB

For the size I would prefer for 21.5, but if the characteristics of the 27 are fundamental...ok.
I have to focus on the processor (i5 - i7) or on the video card (AMD Radeon HD 6770M - AMD Radeon HD 6970M) ?

Apple store: http://store.apple.com/it/browse/home/shop_mac/family/imac/select

I know that the second one is better! I want a PC to work, but, if it's possible, I do not want to spend a fortune!
I do not need a ferrari ... I can use a lamborghini also!!!!!!!! :)
thanks

EDITED: 30 Mar 2012 by FILIPPOL

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 From:  Michael Gibson
5041.2 In reply to 5041.1 
Hi FiL - even though the second machine is better, the first one that you list is still a quite powerful machine, it is by no means a weak machine.

The first one that you show there is more than enough to run MoI quite comfortably, and it should work well for rendering too, you would probably need to be doing some pretty heavy duty rendering projects like longer animation sequences to really notice the higher efficiency on the second machine.


> I have to focus on the processor (i5 - i7) or on the
> video card (AMD Radeon HD 6770M - AMD Radeon HD 6970M) ?

The baseline i5 and the Radeon 6770M are both perfectly fine for MoI.

Most rendering is CPU intensive, so choosing the higher CPU over the higher GPU is likely better for that area, but it depends on the specific renderer that is being used, there are some out there that do use GPU resources instead of CPU resources but that's pretty new.

But really instead of enhancing either the CPU or the GPU it's probably better to prioritize adding more RAM instead, if you want to pick only one enhancement from the base line machine probably doubling the RAM would be the best bet I think. But you would probably be ok with just the baseline there too actually.

The doubled RAM would not really do anything specifically for MoI, it would just tend to keep things fitting all in memory and make it smoother to run multiple programs at the same time. When you fill up all your available RAM the operating system then will swap sections of RAM out to the hard disk and back in again later on, but that swapping process is generally the #1 performance killing thing that you want to avoid. At the base 4GB that might be enough that you would be ok anyway, but new features of operating systems tend to be somewhat RAM consumptive as well so that's why it can be better to focus on expanding in that area as the first choice.

- Michael

EDITED: 29 Mar 2012 by MICHAEL GIBSON

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 From:  FiL (FILIPPOL)
5041.3 In reply to 5041.2 
I and my bank account will thank you!

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 From:  FiL (FILIPPOL)
5041.4 
Hi Michael, and for the license?
Now I use Moi in window. Is it possible convert my license in mac version?
Or I must buy it again?

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 From:  Mauro (M-DYNAMICS)
5041.5 
Ciao Filippo:
a prescindere dalla piattaforma che usi(win-mac) dovrai sempre fare dei rendering per presentare le tue creazioni quindi se sceglierai un motore che sfrutta SOLO la CPU per il calcolo scegli sempre il processore piu' potente,magari a discapito di altri componenti..risparmierai tempo di attesa per il calcolo

se invece opterai per un motore ibrido(CPU+GPU) o addirittura basato solo sul calcolo GPU e tecnologia CUDA allora scegli una scheda video(NVIDIA) col maggior numero di cores e tanta memoria video

MOI pretende pochissime risorse,se il rendering non è una priorita' per i tuoi lavori allora stai tranquillo e spendi poco
questo,come dicevo. a prescindere dalla piattaforma

Mauro
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 From:  SteveMacc (STEVEH)
5041.6 
I'd go for the bigger machine. A 27" screen gives you lots of real estate for modelling. Not sure about AMD cards, but then you don't have any choice. The I-7 is a faster processor but has been superceded. The new Intel ones are not available for the Mac yet.

If you are buying an I-Mac, you are not trying to save money. If you were short of money, you wouldn't be buying a Mac, as performance per £/$ etc is not as good as a PC. There is nothing wrong with Macs and a lot of people prefer OSX for usability etc. I have a MacBook and like it but my PC laptop outperforms it and was cheaper.

Edit: Don't buy your extra RAM from Apple. It is way overpriced. Buy it later from Kingston, etc.
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 From:  TpwUK
5041.7 
OOppsss - Sorry

EDITED: 30 Mar 2012 by TPWUK

Image Attachments:
Size: 1.2 MB, Downloaded: 65 times, Dimensions: 1600x853px
Size: 180.3 KB, Downloaded: 62 times, Dimensions: 845x845px
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 From:  Michael Gibson
5041.8 In reply to 5041.4 
Hi FiL,

> Hi Michael, and for the license?
> Now I use Moi in window. Is it possible convert my license in mac version?
> Or I must buy it again?

You will be able to use your current v2 license for running the Mac version - I'll probably be setting up some kind of web page where you will be able to go and enter in your license key to download the Mac installer and you will then just use your same license key on the Mac.

So no, you won't need to purchase it again, you will be able to just use your current license and you just use it directly you don't have to do any conversion of the license itself.

- Michael
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
5041.9 
Bravo!
Cool result of this "Made in France" ;)
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 From:  stevecim
5041.10 In reply to 5041.1 
I'm using a low end Mac Mini, runs fine, but I did upgrade the RAM to 8GB, make a big difference.
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 From:  FiL (FILIPPOL)
5041.11 In reply to 5041.5 
Ciao Mauro, grazie per l'aiuto.
Io sono di quelli che non ci capiscono molto di quello che gira dentro alla scatola del computer.
Da quel che mi dici se prendo il 21,5 dovrei optare per l'i7: questo mi aiuterebbe nel calcolo dei rendering.
Ok, questo l'ho capito e non è un problema (nemmeno economico).

Quello che faccio fatica a capire e spesso non trovo chi mi sa consigliare in merito è che tipo di pc mi conviene prendere.

- se invece opterai per un motore ibrido(CPU+GPU) o addirittura basato solo sul calcolo GPU e tecnologia CUDA allora scegli una scheda video(NVIDIA) col maggior numero di cores e tanta memoria video

Non so perché scegliere un grosso pc oppure un ibrido, oppure ancora una sola GPU potente.
Tutti mi dicono dipende da quello che fai... ma mi pare di capire dai tuoi ragionamenti che lo stesso risultato si può ottenere con più strade.
Su che base fare una scelta? I miei rendering servono per comunicare il prodotto, l'idea... non vanno in stampa.
Ora come ora io rimarrei sull'iMac, perché non vorrei dover cambiare pc fra 3 anni come ho fatto con win... ma non ho problemi a cambiare piattaforma se più performante.
Grazie ancora.
PS: io son di Padova, tu di dove sei?
Filippo

Hello Mauro, thanks for the help.
I am of those who do not understand much of what runs inside the computer box.
From what you tell me if I take the 21.5 should opt for the i7: this would help me in calculating the rendering.
Ok, I've got and it's not a problem (even cheaper).

What I have difficulty to understand and often don't find who can advise me on what kind of computer should I take.

- If instead opterai for a hybrid engine (CPU + GPU), or even just based on GPU computing and CUDA technology, then choose a video card (NVIDIA) with the highest number of cores and lots of video memory

I do not know why choose a big computer or a hybrid or even a single powerful GPU.
Everyone tells me it depends on what you do ... but I understand from your reasoning that the same result can be achieved with more roads.
On what basis to make a choice? My renderings are used to communicate the product, the idea ... do not go to press.
Right now I should be the iMac, because I would not need to change PC in 3 years like I did win... but I have no problem to change if more powerful platform.
Thank again

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 From:  FiL (FILIPPOL)
5041.12 In reply to 5041.10 
Hi stevecim,
the RAM is be my second step! ;)
Thank

Filippo

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 From:  FiL (FILIPPOL)
5041.13 In reply to 5041.8 
Hi Michael, thanks very nice as usual,
Filippo

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 From:  FiL (FILIPPOL)
5041.14 In reply to 5041.6 
Hi SteveMacc,

>I'd go for the bigger machine.
So do I.

>If you are buying an I-Mac, you are not trying to save money. If you were short of money, you wouldn't be buying a Mac, as performance per £/$ etc is not as good as a PC. There is nothing wrong with Macs and a lot of people prefer OSX for usability etc. I have a MacBook and like it but my PC laptop outperforms it and was cheaper.

I made the estimates, but we are not far.
I can save 200/300 € when I buy the pc ... but how much money I spend on antivirus, in time for the operating system updates or another?

>Edit: Don't buy your extra RAM from Apple. It is way overpriced. Buy it later from Kingston
Thank I saw... it's impressive!

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 From:  Mauro (M-DYNAMICS)
5041.15 
FIL >>On what basis to make a choice? My renderings are used to communicate the product, the idea ... do not go to press.<<

All renderings are made to communicate something..did you try some engine?
Now you'll start to make your jewel than you'll need a rendering to show how it'll be,as soon as possible,ten you'll need a better presentation of your product so you'll need a turntable animation....
this always means powerful CPU,more is stronger,faster your image or animation will be delivered
no dubts: choose the faster CPU


FIL>>I can save 200/300 € when I buy the pc ... but how much money I spend on antivirus, in time for the operating system updates or another?<<

An antivirus costs 50€ in a year,updates are free,made in background,so this is not the problem..with a 1500€ budget you can assembly a workstation in PC area!!(like Stevemacc says)

question for MAC users:
I see you can choose an I7 2600 for your MAC,is it overclockable? (see if have the -K- at the end....intel core I7 2600-K-)
Does MAC support overclocking? is it possible to mount an extra fan to improve cooling?

That CPU is the best compromise between price and power,you can overclok it without problems and run costantly at 4GHz(4cores+4 logical with hyperthreading=8cores)
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 From:  TpwUK
5041.16 
Also take into account that rendering engines are starting to licence by the core - 8 cores = potentially 8 licences.

http://www.3delight.com/en/index.php?page=3DSP_pricing Offers a superb professional rendering engine, free for mono/duel cores, but to get the full power you need to spend. As multi cores have improved and OS's become more stable with them plus the potential for even more cores, virtual or actual, then there is the potential to run on multi processor motherboards, you just know more and more rendering engines will start to take this kind of licencing approach.

Martin
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 From:  stevecim
5041.17 In reply to 5041.16 
Have to agree with stevemac about $per performance on the PC vs Mac.

if your looking at a Mac there is more to it than just pure performance , my full time work is has a system administrator, have been for the last 20 years, Switched to a Mac at home last October , just a low end Mac mini, dual core i5 and am totally happy with it, for me OSX + hardware design out weighs the preformance hit and with real world apps, it's not that much of a performance

My work pc is a high end HP laptop it cost 3500.00. Quad core i7 8BG ram

using DxO to process my RAW images from Sony 14MP DSLR , the HP will process a image in 18sec. The Mac mini. Running DxO does it in 20sec. Considering my mini only cost 800.00 I'm happy with the 2sec preformance hit.


at work we also have a $1400.00 mac book pro , the build quality of the MacBook is miles ahead of the HP and any other PC laptop I've seen and has a tech with OSX I get to have a unix os with the best GUI I've used since the Amiga 500 :).( I liked OS2 warp has well. ). I'm not calling the Mac/OSX the best home computer around but it,s a nice change to windows :).

P.s Sophos offer a free antivirus for OSX :)
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 From:  FiL (FILIPPOL)
5041.18 
Thanks guys. I continue my research with your instructions.
Fillippo

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 From:  Mauro (M-DYNAMICS)
5041.19 
>>TpwUK-Also take into account that rendering engines are starting to licence by the core - 8 cores = potentially 8 licences.<<

This is applied for 3Delight..Maxwell-VRay-Fryrender offer a single license with more nodes,this means that you buy a license then calculate your render scene with your main computer+others you have
no problems how many cores you have

All we know (mac &pc users) best and wrong things of both OS,don't want to talk about that,just talking about render and this only means power to CPU

this is a benchmark where you can see what i mean


http://randomcontrol.com/index.php?option=com_rcbench&Itemid=140&benchid=1
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 From:  Rudl
5041.20 
I had MacBookPro with winxp on it for 1900 €.

Shortly before the end of one year guaranty there was a black strip in the middle of the screen, and the CD/DVD player was defect.

They changed both but the player was still defect, and the changed it once more. After a certain time the player was defect again.

After two and a half year in the morning I had the black screen of death. I looked in the www and found, that a lot of people had the same problem.

My opinion is, that they sell midrange hardware for a very high prize.

This can be seen, when one want to make guaranty for three years. It costs 300€ more. Says everything.

For a PC notebook three years guaranty costs 60€ more.

RUdl
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