please, need help again!
 1-5  6-23

Previous
Next
 From:  mike (MIOHN)
4997.6 
Hi Poalo,

no, was not intended. Maybe a mistake.
I'm pretty new to MOI .

But I don't understand what you mean with "boolean difference" in your file
and how did you get the bevel/fillet on the side? I also tried 0.05 and lots of other values .....

regards
MIke
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Michael Gibson
4997.7 In reply to 4997.6 
Hi Mike, looks like we posted the last messages at the same time - I just want to make sure you notice that I posted a large reply above with some details about problem areas of the model and some description on how you would better structure it to be more fillet friendly.

- Michael
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Michael Gibson
4997.8 In reply to 4997.4 
Hi Mike, and yeah like Paolo mentions above having things on slightly different levels from one another is not helping things either.

So for example in the right-side view of your model here:







- Michael

  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  mike (MIOHN)
4997.9 
Hi Michael,

thanks for your detailed comment.

Well, still pretty new to MOI and therefore
I'm still making lot of mistakes.

I also saw the problem of thight corners and nonplanar surfaces, but I don't know
how to fix the areas you adressed. And I thought, even on thight coners, that a
value of 0.0001 would give at least a very very little fillet.

I think, the way I modeled this was completely wrong.
So for this kind of object, which way would be the best to model?

(Its just a phantasy object which has not to be accurate and which shape
grows from step to step.)

regards
MIke
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  mike (MIOHN)
4997.10 
Hi Paolo,

now I understood, what you meant with boolean difference.

thanks
Mike
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Michael Gibson
4997.11 In reply to 4997.1 
Basically for filleting to be happy you'll either need for pieces to be all one big surface or otherwise to have more separation between areas that are planar.

Right now you've kind of got a half of both ways, you've got most of it as one big surface but then a kind of akward separation kind of right in the middle.

It looks like you started with this shape here:



Then this area here was kind of tacked on separately:



That's left you with some separation between those pieces with edges in these areas here:





If you wanted to do it with all one big surface, then you would want to instead draw in the initial side profile where it was extended some more to the left side more like this:



Then you would cut that with a curve from the top view to slice away material to form the end part instead of kind of gluing it on afterwards:



That kind of approach where you model a larger block and then carve off pieces can tend to make a better end result on things that are supposed to look like they are just one single smooth piece.

If you look at Paolo's example you can see that's how he set it up.

- Michael

  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Paolo (PAOLOLOBBIA)
4997.12 In reply to 4997.6 
Hi mike,

Click the extrude command and select the vertical shape.
Activate Cap ends plus Both sides and extrude to the desired lenght.

Click boolean difference and select the solid.
On the question "select objects to subtract" select the horizontal curve and right click.
Delete the unwanted shape.

I noticed that fillet was inconsistent so i uploaded a modification.
In this case i extended the horizontal curve a bid to make sure that the cut turns out clean.
It's a bit difficult to explain but nurbs are al about mathematics and a bit intolerant to human errors.
Attachments:

  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Michael Gibson
4997.13 In reply to 4997.9 
Hi Mike,

> I also saw the problem of thight corners and nonplanar
> surfaces, but I don't know how to fix the areas you adressed.

You'll pretty much have to reconstruct the object over again.

There are basically 2 different styles that you could approach it - you would either want to make it more segmented with some more sharp edges in your initial profile or otherwise actually make it more all one single large piece.

Check out Paolo's attached file for the "single piece" method - there you'll see that he's drawn in the side profile in such a way that it is extended more to the left and then the rounded area on the left side is produced by carving off some material from a curve that is flat in the Top view. That basically avoids having an extra edge thrown right in to the middle of where you want to have filleted and anything that simplifies the edge structure of your object (like reduces the number of edges meeting up at a single shared point) can also make things easier for filleting.


> And I thought, even on thight coners, that a
> value of 0.0001 would give at least a very very little fillet.

That would normally be correct if that was the only problem area, but the other problematic juncture areas that I mentioned are also a factor in your case here.

- Michael
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  mike (MIOHN)
4997.14 
o.k. "Boolean Difference" is the magic!
Did a good progress with the tips you all gave me!

The main mistake I was doing all the time, was, that I tried
to get these shapes with curves/profiles and the "trim" command.

When I use "boolean difference" instead (thought this only works with "solid" objects)
I can make fillets without problems, because doing this was I end up with proper closed shapes.
What also helped much, was the tip to make the profiles harder first and get the rouded corners
with fillet later!

thanks so far!
Mike
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Michael Gibson
4997.15 In reply to 4997.14 
Hi Mike, yeah so boolean difference is kind of like an automated "batch mode" of Trimming.

It basically does the same basic kind of job as trimming but in fewer steps because it keeps things as solids so any 2D curves that you use to cut the solid will leave behind their "side walls" and so you won't have to do any extra work to construct those separately.

So it can often save quite a bit of time overall if you work more with solids and try to use booleans when possible to do most of the work rather than only using Trim - Trim is kind of more "low level" and can help with some more difficult situations like when you're trying to repair a surface or replace just one small area of an object or things like that.

But for the basic main construction work try to stay more in the area of booleans and solids, it just tends to go quicker.

- Michael
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  mike (MIOHN)
4997.16 
Hi Michael,

hehe, our inputs are overlapping all the time.

I exactly did it in the order you descriped.
But I understand now how to do it. (what Paolo showed in his file)


But what, if I'm building up and the work goes further and further
and then later (maybe too late) I decite, that I want to add an extra shape or part
somewhere.
How do I manage that?
Does it mean, that I (better) have to rebuild the whole object at the end?

thanks
Mike
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  mike (MIOHN)
4997.17 
by the way ...

Where I also have big problems is, to cutout/engrave Typo
on curved surfaces.

In this case I think I have to use "timm"
So what I#M doing is:
1. selecting object
2. select the typo-curve
3. trimm
4. offset - inset or shell
and then ...
5. problem

Should I do this also via "boolean"?

thanks
Mike
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Michael Gibson
4997.18 In reply to 4997.16 
Hi Mike,

> But what, if I'm building up and the work goes further and
> further and then later (maybe too late) I decite, that I want
> to add an extra shape or part somewhere.
> How do I manage that?

Well, a lot of these tips here in this thread are about how to do things better for filleting.

Do you mean that you would decide to add another part to the object after you have done some filleting on it or before you did the filleting?

If you wanted to do it after filleting, then you may have to reconstruct that area of the object. But it depends on the particular case.

If you think you might add more parts to an object later, it would probably be better to use the "more segmented" type approach where you had things more separated out so that stuff like planar areas of your shape was one separate plane surface instead of it all as one big single surface. That approach would lend itself better to adding more pieces later.


> Does it mean, that I (better) have to rebuild the
> whole object at the end?

It could mean that but it depends on the particular situation...

- Michael
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Michael Gibson
4997.19 In reply to 4997.17 
Hi Mike,

> Where I also have big problems is, to cutout/engrave Typo
> on curved surfaces.

Do you have an example file that you could post so I could see one of these situations?


> Should I do this also via "boolean"?

Yeah usually you would also use a boolean for that - finish building any pieces of your curved surface so that it is a solid volume and not just a single surface and then create your text as solids. Then select your base piece and run boolean difference, and then select the text as the cutting objects and it will cut into it and leave an engraved result.

I'm not quite sure why you're referring to offset and inset for that - are you trying to do some kind of special effect on the text or something like that?

- Michael
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  mike (MIOHN)
4997.20 
I'm not quite sure why you're referring to offset and inset for that - are you trying to do some kind of special effect on the text or something like that?

Because I don't know it better. I thought, thats the way to do it.

I'm comming from the Polygon/Subdivision-Modelling and have very little experience
in Nurbs-Modelling.
When I get more time I should go through the manual in detail.
Especialy for learning which functions to use for which operations.

But thanks very much for your support!

regards
Mike
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  mike (MIOHN)
4997.21 
Yeah usually you would also use a boolean for that - finish building any pieces of your curved surface so that it is a solid volume and not just a single surface and then create your text as solids. Then select your base piece and run boolean difference, and then select the text as the cutting objects and it will cut into it and leave an engraved result.


But how would the text follow the curved surface?

MIke
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Michael Gibson
4997.22 In reply to 4997.20 
Hi Mike,

> Because I don't know it better. I thought, thats the
> way to do it.

Well it could be the way to do it in some particular situations, like if you have a surface and you want to thicken it into a slab that has uniform thickness then the Shell command can do that.

But I'm just not sure from your general description of using offset and inset if that's the kind of thing that you were doing or whether you were trying to do something different.

It would probably help to see a 3DM model file with the surface and text in it to give you better specific advice for what technique to use, it can be difficult for me to fully understand what you were trying to do from just a text description - being able to see a 3DM model file really helps me to understand what you were trying to do and I can then give better advice when I'm sure that I understand.

- Michael
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
 From:  Michael Gibson
4997.23 In reply to 4997.20 
Hi Mike,

> I'm comming from the Polygon/Subdivision-Modelling and
> have very little experience in Nurbs-Modelling.

Check out here for some links to previous discussions with some various tips for people coming from a poly modeling background:
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=4865.2

One of the biggest differences is that with NURBS modeling you should generally try to focus on using booleans as the main way to do things, and that takes some getting used to if you come from a sub-d modeling background since you usually avoid it for sub-d.

- Michael
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged
 

Reply to All Reply to All

 

 
 
Show messages:  1-5  6-23